How Heath Cillessen Builds Trust Through Better Communication

In the episode, Heath describes serving the Denver metro area, Boulder, and the foothills of the Rocky Mountains.

The company focuses on large-scale renovations, additions, and insurance restoration work. Heath also discusses residential spec building and some commercial projects.

Homeowners can ask how the budget is managed, what pricing structure is used, which work is handled in-house, and which work is assigned to subcontractors.

Heath describes using project schedules, daily logs, and weekly client updates to communicate progress and changes.

He discusses using AI for design visualization, exploring material options, reviewing emails, and organizing meeting notes.

He wants to continue improving systems and the client experience, grow sustainably, and increase the company's involvement in spec building while maintaining its other areas of work.

Jesse Sampley (00:32)

Heath,

thank you so much for joining me on the Meridian Pursuit Builders podcast.

Give our listeners a little bit of context about where you're building at, how many homes you're building, just a bit of background about the company.

Heath Cillessen (00:45)

Yeah, so my name's Heath. I own Cillessen Construction Company. Cillessen is my last name. so it is a family business here in the Denver Metro, like front range of the Rockies area. So we mainly handle the Denver metro area, the boulder area, and then into the foothills of the Rocky Mountains. we currently do anywhere from you know one to three homes a year right now. but that's slowed down a little bit. We're mostly focusing on large scale renovations and additions.

on people that want to stay in their home and have a

have some good properties. And so that's that's a lot of what we do and then we also do a fair amount of insurance restoration work. So that's a separate part of the business.

Jesse Sampley (01:27)

Okay. So you've got your two separate divisions of the the company right now.

Heath Cillessen (01:32)

Yeah. Yeah. And we've my my whole goal of doing that was just to diversify the company some. I started out in construction in two thousand six and then was working for some

builders in two thousand eight and that was a pretty interesting time to be working in construction and so you know, being that we we can do building and renovation work, that's kinda relies on how the market and housing market and everything's doing and then

the other side of insurance restoration is just if people need our help and we like to give them our expertise as G Cs on it.

Jesse Sampley (02:07)

Do you find that some of the restoration work some of that work kind of funnels into the other side of the business too?

Just by having more and more exposure to what you guys do?

Heath Cillessen (02:16)

Yeah, definitely. And actually goes it kinda goes both ways. Usually what it will be is like maybe we'll do a large renovation for someone and then maybe they have some kind of issue. Maybe it's a exterior damage to their home or some kind of water damage issue down the road. hopefully it's never related to any work we did. It's you know, hopefully just due to some kind of other event. but then yeah, it usually flows through both ways. where we're able to get work from both

sides

of the company.

Jesse Sampley (02:43)

Any any kind of fire restoration. I was talking to a builder up in Canada and he said, just given where they were, he said it's just, fire is is a lot of the damage that we get. So, a lot of that. That was a another division of theirs was was r restoration.

Heath Cillessen (02:58)

Yeah, yeah, and that's you know, when it comes to insurance projects, that would that's what we'd call like a large loss claim or a large claim. And we we do a fair amount of that work. usually

it's something if it's like more of a total loss, which is is a horrible event, to see anyone go through. but you know, in Colorado we had large fires from the Marshall fire and so we rebuilt homes from that and then we've dealt with some other fire

fire loss projects over time. you know, it's that's a whole different beast 'cause you have to not only know how to work with the insurance company and communicate the current codes, but also work

to rebuild the home as well. So it's it's kind of both sides of our business get involved with projects like that.

Jesse Sampley (03:46)

How what's your area look like as far as builders and competition go? Is it pretty pretty crowded?

Heath Cillessen (03:52)

Yeah, I we're so we're in, you know, I I live fairly close to Denver, northwest of Denver in Arvada. And, you know, there's a there's a fair amount of builders. I guess I I you know, I think we've never really had a

huge issue with getting work, per se. It's just more so get it's starting to get a little more competitive, I guess you could say on pricing. but most of our

Clients are not wanting to go with the one man shops, you know, just because it's they want their project to move quickly and efficiently. so yeah, there's there's a fair amount of I g I I don't know how how best to answer that, but there's a fair amount of competition out there, I guess.

Jesse Sampley (04:35)

Well that's good. I mean

when they're when you're in a little bit of a softer market too, it's just people can be a little bit more critical, So it's yeah I just wondered, are there s certain things that you do or to differentiate yourself from other businesses or just the the conversations that you're having with customers, just to help navigate them into what they should be looking at and what questions they should be asking and if they're checking in with, four or five other builders.

Heath Cillessen (04:59)

Yeah.

Yeah, so I think it's always I you know, we'll do we'll do a bit of a design or early on, a pre construction or design process, just depending on the the type of project. but even when we get through initial designs, even when we're working through an architect, a lot of times I suggest our clients get at least another bid just so they feel good about our pricing. you know, a a lot of times if someone's gonna be out there getting

Four or five bids, usually I I think that's too many.

usually I I I think you should be able to have some conversations and narrow it down to two or three just off of conversations and then get two or three bids.

think clients should really talk to multiple builders, but then really get down to maybe only getting two or three estimates overall. if you're getting more than that, you're really gonna be it's really gonna be hard for you to decide as well. some good questions to always ask a builder or a remodeler are, you know, how do you handle the budget? You know, what's your what's your process? Are you a fixed price?

Fixed price or cost plus general

contractor. do you have in house crews or sub everything out? There's pros and cons to both there. and then also questions like, Do you have workers comp? And can you provide me a copy of that workers comp? I that seems like a really simple one, but it's one that most owners never ask. And it's a way they can protect themselves and their property.

Jesse Sampley (06:28)

Yeah. Are you finding that you're having to do a lot of educating for your customers or

Some of the customers that you have have they already gone through this process a couple times before?

Heath Cillessen (06:39)

Yeah, I'd say our customers are fifty-fifty. Sometimes we have a first time owner who's never been through a project, and sometimes we have some who have been through a major project. a lot of times I like to find out w if someone's been through a major project, what went wrong, what they didn't like from the project. because usually that gives us some insight of like, you

know, how

how it was you know, what the other G C or remodeler did wrong and make sure we're we're really performing how we should as a company.

And then yeah, our our our newer customers, ones that haven't been through renovation, we we want to help them through it. You know, it's not it's a process to do a large scale project. And if we're not doing our job of guiding them through it, then it can make the process a lot harder.

Jesse Sampley (07:25)

What do you what are you finding that people are saying that went wrong usually? What do they find? What's that

Point of contention that you kind of hear about Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (07:31)

Yeah. let's hear I had one I was looking at yesterday. I said, Hey, you have a nice like back patio edition here in deck. I said, Who who did that project? And he's he didn't want to share and he's like, probably some someone that shouldn't have. I like, I'm sorry to hear that. and so he said that you know, the the guy just cut some corners and didn't get things done properly to meet code and he ended up having to finish it with someone else and so you know, there's some things like that.

A lot of it always I mean, there's even spots where we as a G C have made improvement from lessons we've learned from the way we ran projects. a lot of it goes down to schedule. Schedule and the way the schedule's communicated and change orders and and changes and in costs to the project. that's a huge part of our job and is communicating that effici effectively. And that's something we've really made some additional processes to to make sure that's

done in a good way.

Jesse Sampley (08:30)

That's what I've heard from a lot of builders is they say, if I could boil everything down to one key point, it would just be communication. Because that's the that's how you establish the trust and that's how you maintain the trust. And with some of these larger projects, you know, it it will go on for, you know, months and months, a year, you know, even past that, depending on the project size. They said, you know, it's really like a marriage, you know, and you have to

go through so during the the onboarding of the of the customer is really let them know hey, these are our ground rules and we need to just remind them of these ground rules as the project's going on. But how what are some ways that you're establishing that trust real early on, it being so important?

Heath Cillessen (09:15)

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, communication is probably one of the biggest things. I've always said that.

whether it's working on a project or even with safety on a project, communication is such a big part of safety. But especially with clients and the people we work for, so we we kind of set some some repeating standards that we feel are important. So we use as a company we use builder trend, project management software and

That's our our CRM for once projects are signed and they're into production.

and so on there we have a schedule and we have daily logs. Those are two big parts of communication and client updates. So for our clients, like a lot of our clients maybe are you have vacation homes and we're working on their vacation home. And so they're not there. They don't live there. They don't they're maybe out of state or in a different town. So for everyday field works going on our are

standard is to write a daily log and send them that daily log by the end of the day.

So if you if we're out their project for five days, they get five daily logs that week. and then at the end of the week we're always writing a client update. Hey, this is kind of where things are at, that our schedule shifted maybe a little bit because of this. This is when we're expected to be done with your project. So to me, communicating about what happened each day and communicating the overall timeline of when the job's going to be done are two of the like

foundational changes we made to make sure we're communicating that stuff all the time is

is our goal.

Jesse Sampley (10:51)

And what if, you know, and and I know it happens, this is part of the reality, but you know, when you've got something to communicate that's not great news,

Heath Cillessen (10:59)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (10:59)

and I meant to ask you this earlier, but what what model are you guys running? Are you cost plus or what?

Heath Cillessen (11:04)

So we're we're a hybrid of a cost plus and and a fixed price. we we have in house crews, so anything we're doing in house or anything we're doing that we can bid as a fixed price before the project we're gonna give a bid on. And

then for any unknowns we're we work off of a cost plus like an allowance type style.

Jesse Sampley (11:23)

So if if something does come up, what have you found is is a good way to communicate these things that are not the best, you know, sometimes not the easiest conversations to

have with the customer.

Heath Cillessen (11:32)

Yeah. Yeah, mean, jumping in and f figuring out right away is is a good deal. I think about

if it were my money, how would I want to be treated? Is is what I always tell our project managers. If it were your money, if y you were paying that money, how would you want to be treated? So, you know, so if we rip into a wall and there's a bunch of wood rot, I'll use that as an example.

And we find it and we're like, this is not good. We don't want to just throw that on a daily log and send them an email on it and they find out that way. Because they're going to immediately have questions. Well, what does this mean? How are we going to work through it? So we had that earlier this week on

Wednesday. We took out an next tier door, found a bunch of wood rot. So right away we took a video, sent it to the client, and then said, Hey, can you give us a call? Just want to tell you about this. We're gonna work on it right away.

We were able to resolve all the woodrock, get it all fixed and get the door in before the end of the day, so it worked out great. and got her to sign the change order, everything to get that all fixed within the the work day. but yeah, usually a phone call or if it's if it's

really tough news, going in person and talking to you know, people are spending a lot of money on their homes and so I just I just from my perspective like to think of how would I like to find out the bad news and

Just someone that's honest and transparent about it, I think is important.

Jesse Sampley (12:56)

And that's that's such a wholesome way to to operate too. it's people say that, not everyone is is going to, you know, unfortunately they're not gonna abide by that. But you know, I can just tell by your

By your cadence and your demeanor of just man, there's really there's there's no BS here. I'm just gonna tell you exactly what it is. It's there's probably a comfortability that you are giving your your customers, know, just by

Heath Cillessen (13:17)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (13:17)

telling them, Hey, I'm gonna I'm putting myself in your shoes. I'm gonna if if I'll act as my own client, you know, and I'll get I'll treat you with that respect.

Heath Cillessen (13:26)

Sure. And we're not you know, it's not by any means we're trying not trying to make a killing on every project. We're trying to, you know, pay

pay our employees a fair wage for what their their worth and our worth is and we bring we believe we bring value to the table, but we just really respect it. and I've always just said remember it's their money, not our money. So let's just, you know, w communicate. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (13:53)

what I I've heard a lot is you know on on a dollar amount you can't look at the dollar amount, you know, because one bad decision can cost you a reputation stain that

will follow you around like a like a bad penny. So, you know, some things it's just easier or you know, always just have the integrity, you know, and and look and and protect that reputation at all cost. Sure. 100%. Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (14:15)

Sure, hundred percent. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (14:18)

Well what things on a kind of go getting into more of the the nitty gritty, the construction side of things, you know, are there certain certain things on the actual building side that that you guys hold

priority, a certain type of material, a certain way, a certain standard that, you don't have to do according to the code, but you guys do do just because, you know, it's means something to you all. Is there anything on the construction side that

that yeah

Heath Cillessen (14:43)

Yeah. Y yeah, it it's you know, I I've put a lot of effort into energy efficiency within homes, but also making

within solar systems as well. so you know, I believe a a good home should have a a solar system with a battery backup system as well to it. you know, it's something that if in designed in and and added to the project, it it can be done for a good price.

so unfortunately we you know every time we've gone down this route with a roofing product, now they're getting shelved.

so like we were we were big in GF energy was one of them, and then that product got shelved. And then we were we're one of the I think five or six certified installers and one of the only G C certified installers of Tesla solar shingles. So it's a very very nice looking roof, very

Very energy efficient. it's an expensive product, but it's it's a really good solar shingle product. so that's but

unfortunately now they're pulling that off the shelf later this year, is the new news that so we still can offer Tesla solar backup, power walls, things like that, and then couple that with solar power. that's just in in my opinion, I think the grid long term can't handle everything we're throwing at it yet.

And a lot of electricians have told me the same thing. So I believe it's important to design that into projects and if you can implement some kind of solar with the battery backup.

I think it makes it so our homes in the front range of Colorado with those Marshall fires that everyone went through. now they're doing these rolling power shutoffs, which are kinda interesting. Last winter, I think at my own home we the power was off for like two or three days. So,

It's in an effort when there's high winds to cut down the chance of fires from, you know, power lines falling. But it's something that in the front range of Colorado we're gonna start facing a lot more of. So

a home shouldn't, you know, we shouldn't have to worry about the power going off and our pipes freezing. Like we're way past that as a as technology is concerned. So it's just we've been develop in implementing that. beyond that, other things we do are

I I think there's a lot of ways to build efficiently with a thermal break within homes, but not have it cost a lot. So I've

always liked when I get to work with an architect who's like willing to try something different. I think back to like some of the fine home building magazines I've read over the years, and it's just like in order to have that thermal break, you can do it efficiently and not have it break the bank as well. so one of the builders I learned a lot from, he was real

ahead of that maybe ten or fifteen years ago. And then another thing that we do is I I've always thought adding a personal touch to a project is cool. So a lot of our bigger

projects we've built like custom entry doors in our own shop for so that it's just kind of like our signature on our on our large projects. Yeah.

So

Jesse Sampley (17:53)

that's awesome. The though those kind of things are you know easy to communicate i if you guys are but you know taking around taking a a customer to another project and and showing them, you know, pointing out some of those things. You know, I have found you we're we're on the the

the the marketing side of things. So that's a lot of the stuff that we look at for different builders is hey, what are the things that are hard to to see after the project's done? And then let's show that to the masses. because those are the some of those things are, how you establish some of that trust. just by letting people know what you're paying attention to. 'cause it's it's it's easy to, you know, go through a parade and and and see the the finishes and and all the kind of the eye candy of the project.

But so seldom do you see the the things that you never do see

that are or the things that you're paying attention to. I I was wondering, how are you staying up to date on some of these things, solar on a energy efficiency side? are there are there you know, the shows that you go to or you know, how are you kind of keeping up with with all of this stuff?

Heath Cillessen (18:54)

Yeah. yeah, it's a good question. So, you know, as far as the solar and energy efficiency, a lot of it is with working

with architects that are are really, you know, aware of it and and w working to push that forward. also s I've sent some of our project leads to different classes on energy efficiency and zero n net zero homes. but you know, it's it that's what I struggle with a net zero home and just as a as a builder.

net zero home and when we think about a a very energy conscious home, as you wanna say,

the price just goes up and up, right? So that's what I I've always struggled with is let's find a way to make build energy efficient homes that doesn't cost break the bank. And so that's that's along the lines of of what I've liked is when I get to work with an architect who's kind of pushing that forward, I guess.

Jesse Sampley (19:51)

Do you guys do any design in in house?

Heath Cillessen (19:54)

We'll we'll do design for like renovation projects and smaller additions.

so we'll do our in-house drafting for that. And then if it's like a large scale multiple additions or a custom home or just renovation that one of our architects bring us, then we'd work with them directly on that.

Jesse Sampley (20:12)

What do you do you have a key project that comes to mind that's just man, if I could get a hundred of these exact same type of projects, this is what

I would love.

Heath Cillessen (20:20)

Yeah. hm. That's a that's an interesting question 'cause from a from a builder's

perspective of what's fun to build. I I mean I have a f yeah, I have a few out there, you know, just I I really like really hard stuff and something that's challenging, you know. which as far as a business owner maybe maybe isn't always the best thing, right? that you know, I think there's a reason why there's so many

builders that just build spec homes and and track homes. But yeah, I I've liked like difficult projects. Like we had we

had one where we did a radius panda door and the glass was a radius and we had to find a way to do a radius steel beam and like it was all existing down in Green Village and so that it was very difficult. It's probably one of the more difficult structural things we've done in a long time. so I I've always liked those projects.

but from a business perspective, I think it's good to not have all the same projects. I think it's good to have, you know, few large

ones, a few medium size and then a, you know, a bit of small projects because it I think it just helps to where the team doesn't get so spread out of just doing all the same thing. And I think it also helps with cash flow as a business too.

Jesse Sampley (21:39)

Yeah. Well like you said, it's it's good to to head yourself against different you know different types of of of the market that you

have. I've

There's a builder client of ours now that, that's for them, it's spec homes because they can they can produce a really efficient spec home. So they do custom builds and then they do spec homes, but they use their spec homes as a little bit of a as a sales opportunity too, just to show people what they're capable of.

Heath Cillessen (22:04)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (22:05)

and you know, have no limitations. You know, so they have design drivers that they put into this these different homes because they can. And they they are the they're their own clients.

So they have they have fun with it and you know, have found that a lot of the custom builds come out of people coming through their spec homes and being like, my goodness, like there's no builder in this area that's doing what you guys are doing. And they said, Yeah, well that's kind of the point, you know, or you know, one of the points of us. but also, you know, keeping their trades busy i if it's slow, but they kind of viewed all their specs as as more of a a marketing tool f for them, which I thought was real interesting.

Heath Cillessen (22:41)

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. And that's what as a builder, I've I've only got into a a little bit of spec work and I think that's probably my goal would be five years from now or ten years from now, if we ever had this conversation again, that I could say, Yeah, I I really like working for clients, but I also really enjoy the projects we get to do ourselves. So we have like we have our second spec now going, smaller home, and then we have another

flip spec. You know, we just we

we've honestly been so busy working for clients we haven't really picked up on it as much, but we're starting to now. And we're enjoying we're enjoying that side of it. It's a it's a whole different side of it.

Jesse Sampley (23:21)

I've always heard, the the land, to to actually make a spec profitable, it starts before just acquiring the land, which where you're at, I'm sure is is quite a challenge just

Heath Cillessen (23:31)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (23:31)

because everybody wants everybody wants a piece, no pun intended.

Heath Cillessen (23:36)

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And

and we have one one spec project where we've been working on the land purchase for about a year and a half now. So and it's still not complete. So it's the those projects just take more time, I've I've learned and but it it can be rewarding too, 'cause to say, Hey, I we completely developed and built this and you know, it's off to off to family to use or if it's commercial, it's off to a business to use. So yeah, it's good.

Jesse Sampley (24:05)

yeah you know have you guys done any commercial projects in the past?

Heath Cillessen (24:09)

Yeah, so we've done a bit of a like TI finish, a bit of

that. And then a fair amount of our commercial work falls in that insurance side of things. So like if it's a multifamily, we did we did six fourplexes where we had to restore the whole exterior of the ho the the fourplexes as well as some exterior commercial projects, whether it's roofing assemblies or exterior construction. usually it's

projects like that. We've even done some bigger projects where we're doing additions on on a commercial building.

but I hold my class A G C license so that way we can kinda do whatever project comes our way if it it's a good fit for us as a company and if it's providing value to the client.

Jesse Sampley (24:52)

Yeah. Well tell talk to me about the team a little bit. You know, it's that's one, you know, challenge that a lot of people have is, you know, your work is only as good as as your subs, but it sounds like you guys got a lot of you know, an internal team that that handles a lot too. How does that how is that structured for

you guys?

Heath Cillessen (25:09)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (25:09)

Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (25:10)

Yeah,

so we have you could say four four different side I guess it's five. I guess you could say we have five different sides of business. And so we have our main office, so that's gonna be our estimator, our our admin and our accounting. and so that's just one person per area. One estimator, one office admin, one accountant, and then we have our marketing department. So my wife Ashley, she runs the marketing.

And then also we have a a full time videographer and also some editor. his official title would be

multimedia content producer, that's it.

our marketing department. My w my wife Ashley runs our marketing and then sh there's one other person at the department's name's Dan. He handles our multimedia content produci productions. So that's his title. So he handles all of our social media, all of our, you know, videos

and pictures of our projects, pictures that end up in our you know, our magazine ads, things like that. and then we have our sales department. So

I I manage the sales and the production side of the company. still I don't have any direct managers for that. So it's a little bit of managing on my side. But w we have sales reps who particularly focus on the insurance side of things and then also on the renovation side of things.

and then we have our production. So our production is consisted of both project managers and crew leads, and those crew leads will have anywhere from two to three people underneath them.

our crew leads are the guys out there doing field work. We focus on carpentry in house. And then our project managers focus on the coordination of not only our crew leads, but also our subcontractors. so that's kind of a a picture of our company, you could say.

Jesse Sampley (27:00)

Whatever are for your project leads, are they how are they treating, how how are they treating the subs? that's like I was saying earlier, you know, the the the work is only as good as the sub sometimes, but they also can be a a good representation to the to the c customer, especially if they're if they're ever on site. But you know, are there any things that kind of trickle down for you know how those how you're treating those people?

Heath Cillessen (27:21)

Yeah, well, I mean I feel like

a lot of our subcontractors are ones we've worked with for years. some of our like our I of our tile guy, I worked with him before I started CCC back up. So you know, twelve, thirteen years some of these subs but I I personally like to look for owner operators. there's certain projects that lend itself to have someone where you need to have a bigger company, maybe

an example of that would be if

you have a a really large home and you need to get twenty or thirty drywallers over there instead of just a few. but I find the owner operators with a you know two to three employees, you end up with some really good quality and good pricing and the they're happy 'cause th that subcontractor is making good money because they don't have a ton of overhead and also the clients are happy with the quality. and they just take a little more ownership with their work.

You know, and that's I think that's an important part of it. but yeah,

taking I I feel it's a very important to take care of your subs. And and vice versa, if we have issues with the subs, the PMs have a good open line of communication, like, hey, we're having this issue, this homeowner complained about the subcontractor that the way they were talking or what they were doing, and you we address that, but then we may not use that sub as much in the future.

Jesse Sampley (28:48)

Yeah, I know it's a real important thing. My my dad was a home builder.

And he was so critical of of the subs that he had because it it was just a you know, a it was the representation and qual work quality was I mean he that was what he he held at the highest standard. So he was he did a really good job with kind of showing where that standard was. and sometimes it was you know, it kinda it weeded out the the the subs that, you know, just that wasn't a priority for them.

And like you said, he he lent himself to these these smaller crews that you just got a better project product because you you know there was more focus that they could have on on his projects. He he

Heath Cillessen (29:30)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (29:30)

found that it was the exact same thing as as you have.

Heath Cillessen (29:33)

Yeah. Yeah, they're I mean they're a direct extension of your product, right? And it's it's kind of different than like when you go get your car work done

at a dealership

or an auto body shop or something. That's all one one group of employees doing it. And so like subcontractors, it's a separate company that we have to use, but if you get we were talking about it as a project production team the other day, like it sometimes we take for granted a good sub, you know.

One that will just show up on time, get the work done and not have any issues, like we we can't take those for granted because they're they're getting rarer and rarer to find

out there.

Jesse Sampley (30:15)

No, and I've I've got the same structure because we've got I've got video people and editors, website designers, a lot graphic designers, but they you know it's you can't take the you know you give them a you give a due date, you give a a project description, and you know, they're able to to finish it with, you know, minimum to no revisions.

It's like, man, that that person's a rock star, keep that person at at all costs because if if they're good, other people are going to probably try to take away from you. Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (30:45)

Yeah, yeah.

Jesse Sampley (30:47)

so just a another reason to you know for me, like I always just, you know, show a lot of appreciation. 'Cause I I mean honestly, you know, and it and I want them to if it's a if it's an A player like that, you know, they also have pride in their own work. So it's not like

I'm just assigned this task and then I'm off to the next one. It's like, no, take ownership of this and you can actually be proud of the product, and if it wins an award in the future, or just even if it's for yourself, you know, you've got a a nice portfolio for your for everything that you've done. So it's it it's not easy to always find I've had, you know, my own challenges of trying to find people that, you know, take ownership of something like that.

But when you do, you gotta hold on to hundred percent. Yeah, and take care of them

Heath Cillessen (31:28)

a hundred percent. Yeah, and take care of for sure.

Jesse Sampley (31:30)

for sure. Yeah. Well, let's let's s I want to switch topics a little bit, you know, kind of a little bit more into the the AI side of of of building for you. And and if you have, you know, over at at IBS, it was in Orlando this year and I went and that was a a key topic. And it's just something that it's it's here, you know, and a lot of

A lot of builders, construction companies are getting really efficient with the same team or even a a more lean team just because of the amount of work that they're giving to their different AI softwares. I wanted you, if you are using AI, would you give us just kind of a look at, you know, what it's doing for you and what do you see in the future for what it will, you know, help what areas it it will help you guys?

Heath Cillessen (32:16)

Yeah.

Well, I think AI yeah, yeah, I think AI is here to stay. we all know that. It's been a been around a little while now. And you know, it's surprising. I think we all use it almost as a Google search engine. but there's so many capabilities with it if we if we learn about it. so, you know, some of the the ways we use it, we we use it pretty early on in design.

an example

of that is like we were bidding a project and they had some nice kitchen elevations, but they didn't have a fireplace elevation. This was a project we just bid a a couple of weeks ago in Castle Pines, a neighborhood south of Denver. And so we put in the dimensions, we put in the exact fireplace unit we wanted, we put in the height, and we sent a picture, you know, of of what we had and just said

Can you give us a rendering of what this fireplace would look like with a hundred-inch TV above it? It's a great size TV if you have have that room for that TV, right? And Venetian plaster and cabinets on built-ins on both sides. Spit out an image pretty quickly. We were able to show it to the client, like, hey, is this what you're thinking? They're Yep, that's it. That's exactly what we want. So in the past, that would have taken us some time to hand draw it, get it to our draftsman, have her draw it, and then

maybe

more back and forth. That simple task could have taken maybe three or four hours, took ten minutes. So, but that's where I think we're just so early on on learning how to use it. so we we use it a bit on design. we use the hover AI design tool quite a bit too where you can take a picture of the outside of home and you can throw different materials on there, whether it's siding, windows, paint. that's really helped

Another client of mine with design, we were working through what her entry door would look like. And we were able to send a picture and show it as a reduced size versus if we enlarge the opening. Just those things have kind of helped us a bit with visualizing because that's what that's what clients want is visualization. So beyond that

for all my

employees we use for that. Let's here. I've found that for renderings like that, Chat GPT does best. for all of our employees we have we're set up as like a Microsoft company. So we the everyone has copilot as needed to like and I I ask everyone to as far as employees to just use it to review emails, not to draft emails completely.

I think is that's

another thing I I feel bad is that when we just see an email that's written all with AI, a lot of times we're just starting to skip through it or just not read it. So Yeah, it's too long, right? Or or it's got the bold or it's got the dashes and so you know when it's written by AI. So we we usually just for the sake of, you know, easy proofreading, we'll send stuff through to proofread it.

But yeah, even like our client updates, Builder Trends kind of starting to have it integrated into their system a little bit. So the client updates are written with AI, but we usually will we'll edit them and change them up according to what we need. So we use so chat for chat GBT for like those visualizations. I use Claude quite a bit. more so as a business owner. I have it tied into my email, I have it tied into my my meeting notes.

and it's just really helpful for me to pull meeting notes from previous one on ones with project managers or pull meeting notes from clients and just n establish our action items real quickly.

Yeah. Yep. That's it. So yeah, but I think it we're just so early on in learning what all the capabilities are and we're just trying to learn a little bit as we go with it. I s I still I'm

not gonna turn over all the estimating to it in any way. I still just feel like that's something that has to have a process and you know, we'll use it to maybe check current market pricing on materials. but

A lot of times we also use a product called Exactimate, which we use with our insurance estimation, 'cause that pulls like real market data of what pricing is. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (36:58)

Well, it's definitely something that, everyone will use a little bit different, you know, and I feel like there there is there's a a little bit of a scramble right now of just, you know, I feel some pressure like I should be using something. I'm not really sure what to use. I've told people, if nothing else, just use it. I use ChatGPT the the project as an executive assistant. it doesn't write any emails. It really is just here to it organize and and tags the my emails.

it gives me a a morning briefing at six AM every single morning to just say here's your priority. I use a project management software for all of our projects. So it reads all of the due dates and anything that's missing. It just analyzes all of that because you can add all of your different all of your different softwares to ChatGPT. It's a business

Heath Cillessen (37:46)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (37:46)

account, so it's all private.

so it's not being used to to train it. There's it's not gonna show up on on Google or anything strange, anything like that. So that was really important for me. But it's really just a a a third eye to have there. I'm not using it generate a lot because I still value the having something in your head. and if it if it's everything's off done a software or it's kind of out of your head, I don't know. I there I don't think there's I still value that.

to hey, I've got an understanding of what I'm doing. 'Cause it's easy for it to, populate it to a Google Sheet or to write a an ex a forty page PDF. But if you don't have it in your mind, then I don't know, it it's it's different and and mistakes get made.

Heath Cillessen (38:29)

Yeah, and I yeah, definitely. And I I think it's it's you know, we want the human touch on things is what I I think and

you know it's it's easy to get away from that, but you know, I I it's cool to hear so you you use chat GPT and it's tied into all your all your different P your C R and everything.

Jesse Sampley (38:52)

yeah, so click up is what I use for project management software. So that's basically your your builder trend. so I've got it connected to click up, my Gmail, and then I've got it connected to Google Sheets and

Google Docs. So I've got it connected to all of that. And that basically is just giving me my my daily briefing. And

Heath Cillessen (39:12)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (39:12)

then I've got a couple other automations that I set up of just we do some real estate investing ourselves. So I'll have it pull things from Redfin and Zillow and Realtor.com and just say, hey, within my area that I'm looking for opportunities at, here's my parameters.

every single week, just give me a flow of some opportunities, rated from A to E that you think that may be interesting to look at. So a few things like that. That's just it's set on autopilot. Another one that, I really like podcasts and hearing stories, analyzing different business models. So each morning part of my routine is to just read a case study. an interesting case study that has to do with what I'm interested in my life. It gives me just a short

a you know a short synopsis case study of how this person started, what their business model is, what worked, what didn't work. So I use it, you know, again, it's it's yes, you can Google all of that stuff, but this is it's just a very high powered Google, you

Heath Cillessen (40:11)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (40:11)

know, that I'm using it on a daily basis.

Heath Cillessen (40:14)

Yeah, and it it directs it exactly to what you ask it to and that's that's awesome.

Jesse Sampley (40:19)

Yeah.

Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty incredible. And and like I said, everyone is going to use it a little bit differently. but you still, you know, I think at this point you you have to protect you can't let it have too much control yet, you know. Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (40:32)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (40:33)

It it can make people lazy, and when people are lazy, then it's going to make it's gonna make big mistakes.

Heath Cillessen (40:39)

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Jesse Sampley (40:41)

Well, talk to me a little bit about the future. You know, you guys, you say you've been around it's

13 years? Yeah. What's the future look like for you guys?

Heath Cillessen (40:50)

you we we started out, I started it when I was twenty two. I don't know if that was a good decision or not, but I went after it and started a construction company and then so we are yeah, just a little a little over thirteen years now.

so it was it it was a f family business, you know, it was my dad's business and he passed away. So I I wanted to reopen it was always my goal.

so I I reopened it and then really at the beginning, the first five, six years of business, I was doing a lot of field work. I was project managing. then it went from me doing the project managing to then having just project managers. And so you

know, my my goal for the next few years is to to just keep developing our systems that really perfect the client experience.

along the way. I think that's an important part of it. It's just it's so important that you know, we we are communicating effectively as a company and that there's there's a good handoff between the project leader, our sales reps and the project manager. So

the goal is to keep growing the company at a at a slow rate. I've always believed slow slow growth is is good growth.

it's sustainable growth and we're gonna get in our goal is to get into more spec builds long-term, spec driven projects, whether that's commercial or residential builds or even residential renovations. So we have resin right now we have residential renovation and also a spec build going. And

then our goal is to s just get into where we're doing at least two to three of those type projects per year. while still

Jesse Sampley (42:52)

Well it

Heath Cillessen (42:43)

maintaining a reasonable amount of large scale renovation work and then that small amount of or that that amount of insurance work. Hopefully not small is the word.

Jesse Sampley (42:54)

sounds like you've got enough nets out there that or I guess fishing lines. Maybe people don't have multiple nets, but you got enough fishing lines out there to where, you know, there's

Depending it doesn't matter what the market is, but you can there there's some security in that, you know. So

Heath Cillessen (43:07)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (43:08)

if yeah, you know, there there can be some that steady growth, you know, amongst all of those things, you know, you you've got a lot that that people can that can attract people to you.

Heath Cillessen (43:18)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (43:18)

What what are you guys doing now on a marketing side? You know, obviously you've got a website, you've got an in house you know, content team. Why why prioritize that? and how is that how

Or I guess I'd like to know a couple of things. one is, why make that decision? Because I've I've talked to a lot of builders. They're just like, man, let me just do my work, Have

Heath Cillessen (43:37)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (43:37)

you when did you decide to make that decision? And and was there a reason why?

Heath Cillessen (43:41)

I wouldn't mind just adding something to what's in the future if that's all right. It's fine. so and

and then beyond that in the future we we don't really see on expanding our our office, our production project manager team too much right now. We really want to just focus on working with the guys we have and the people we have, 'cause something I've really enjoyed is just seeing people grow in their capabilities.

And so, you we really see that our our office and our project management staff we have now, we really have the ability to grow more and manage more work just with what we have. Beyond

that, we hope to add more in house crews though. So build our build our in house crews to where we're able to just continue to push quality work and more work where we can control it in house. so that's that's really our

Jesse Sampley (44:30)

when you say

those type of crews, are you talking about, actual, licensed, plumbers,

Heath Cillessen (44:34)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (44:35)

electricians? Okay. So we'll we'll still sub out

Heath Cillessen (44:36)

our in house crews are gonna stay focused on the carpentry side. so we'll we'll still sub out plumbing

and electrical and H VAC, but our in house crews are gonna be, you know, your framers, your interior trim installers, your cabinet installers, window and X tier trim. that's really focus on. And then just the general labor too that's associated with any project. Demo, protection, pulling the protection out, moving materials, all that. that's

Jesse Sampley (45:04)

That was my

job as a teenager. I was the in between guy. Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (45:06)

Yeah. Yeah, that's where I started out too, you know? So but yeah, that's

that's where we see it.

Jesse Sampley (45:14)

That's awesome. I I I love that's such a wholesome view that that you have. You know, one, what a great leader, you know, of just you know, letting these people grow in their position. I I think there's a lot to be said about that, you know, but definitely a a long term vision, you know, of knowing that hey, we're we're gonna be here a while. so let's be responsible with that.

Heath Cillessen (45:33)

Well, I appreciate that and I I think that's something that once I started getting into building I didn't realize is

I thought it'd be all about all the cool stuff we build. And it was. And we've built a lot of cool stuff. But seeing seeing someone who, you know, I've someone who's he started for me when he was nineteen and now he's like running a whole division and it's just so cool to see that. And I've just as an owner started to get more, you know, more joy in seeing that.

than the cool stuff we build. So it's cool. We get to build cool stuff, but we also get to see people grow in their capabilities. It's it's a

cool part of our business, I think.

Jesse Sampley (46:10)

Are you attracting people just with the culture that you have or the people that work for you?

Heath Cillessen (46:15)

Yes, we are. and I think sometimes it's a matter of not hiring everyone we attract. I don't know if that's the right way to answer it.

Jesse Sampley (46:26)

you're you're pretty intentional on on the type of

Heath Cillessen (46:29)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (46:29)

the pace of growth that that you're at.

Heath Cillessen (46:31)

Yeah. Yeah, I think let me re answer it. So yes, we we are seeing that. we have people coming to us and I think that's something as an owner I've I've had to work on too is I I love to see people grow in their capabilities, but I also have to get people who are are the right fit too. And so we we've really s lately we've slowed down our hiring process a lot and taken

a lot more time to hire people and make sure it's the right fit. And and

Because of that we've we've we've really made some when we have had to hire, we've made some really good hires lately and people that I really enjoy working with. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (47:09)

Yeah. that's good. Well, let's touch base a little bit on on a marketing side of how you guys are attracting people. given some other builders, some insight of, maybe stuff that has not worked that you've seen and then stuff that you s

have seen you know how does work. Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (47:26)

Yeah. do you do you want me to jump into why we started doing social media and everything at all? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. so I mean I've always I I think early on it was very easy to get work. we kinda had what I'd call a line at the door.

it was just referral, you know, it was referral after referral after referral. And I think that's why doing a good job matters early on and all the time. but you know, then it what we find is beyond the referrals it's good to have a good professional network.

So we believe it's important to have architects that we can refer work to, but that can refer us back work. Same with interior designers, real estate agents, insurance agents. So a

lot of our work marketing is on outreach. beyond that, we've started to work Google ads and all these different things in marketing are something I've never understood really as a builder. So you know, I think having someone or a company that

really understands Google ads, understands blogs, understands website development is so important, because there's little things, tweaks that I wouldn't know that, you know, I could tell you, hey,

when we're installing a hardwood floor, you should do this instead of this, but I can't tell you when you're writing a blog, you should do this instead of this. So I think having the right people with that is a is so important as a builder. right when we got that, we saw the leads coming in were better quality leads and it just

got where we have that more of a line at the door. and then we've we've completely dove into social media and content production and it's

been fun. That's been something to learn how to even do as a builder, but we've enjoyed it too.

Jesse Sampley (49:18)

Are you the face of a lot of that social media content?

Heath Cillessen (49:22)

I I am, yeah. Myself and you know, my wife Ashley will jump on sometimes as well. Every now and then we get a few of the other guys at the company jump on, but they're not enjoying it as much, you know. So yeah.

Jesse Sampley (49:34)

I mean, even the owners are just like, Man, I mean, I do not want to be in front of

camera what whatsoever. What would you say to someone like that? It's a muscle you gotta flex, yeah, and build up over time.

Heath Cillessen (49:43)

it's it's like I don't know. It's like working out, right? You don't like the first few times you do it, but it gets better after time. Yeah. I mean it's fun 'cause we can we go back to some of my oldest stuff that I did and like we laugh at it. We're like, God, this was so bad. but you know, it's I

think it just becomes a little more natural. It's it's it's unnatural at the beginning when you're first doing it, you're kinda like, you know

trying to learn how to do a video. But it's also rewarding. Like we've had a few videos pop off the multiple hundred thousand, like three, four hundred K views. And we have one pop off this week. It's kinda fun. It's fun when you you have that. And what we what's really cool about that is I will say to other owners out there doing it, don't expect you're gonna jump into it and get a lead for a year.

Like you got to commit to it for like a year to really see some results.

Jesse Sampley (50:37)

This is I I tell builders, I say, the way that I would look at it is this is a this is the easiest way to build trust with someone and that someone that, maybe they're not ready to raise their hand just yet, but peop people who are ready to build, usually they're looking I found that lead times are usually, six to twelve months, is when they really start, okay, let's let's look at who these people are.

And it's such an easy way to see well, what are the different personalities of these people? because you can tell a whole lot just by the by the images that are posted, you know, what kind of website is out there. Of course, you know, they're gonna look at some some background. But it's such an easy way to build kind of this virtual relationship with people just by by, you know, what it what's what are you putting out there? You know, what you put out there is is what you're going to attract. So if you put out there that

hey, we've built a lot of trust over the years because, we're dedicated to not just marketing headlines, but really dedicated to the customer experience that someone having having a a good experience and and this is what we're prioritizing. And and maybe you hear a little bit from another customer, like all of that kind of stuff over time, you know, really builds that trust where when someone really you know, when they're ready, you know, they they've taken all that stuff in and they've said, Okay, you know.

now out of the twenty builders, I'm really down to the five. And, you know, I'm going you know, now what's, you know, budget or whatever their their different criteria is. but it's just an it's it's such a great way to, you know, get get yourself out there.

Heath Cillessen (52:06)

Yeah. Yeah, it's not not easy to start for sure. But once you start doing it, you can it it can it can be fun. If you have fun with it, then it it's a little more rewarding.

But it was even a process for us. I mean, early on we're like, well, just trying to learn like what's our target audience, you know, you have to determine that. And that changes the way you talk to the people you're you're reaching out to. And you know, it's it's so all what we're working on right now, we do pretty good with like Instagram, we'll do

Anywhere from three to five reels a week and some carousels and then the other part of it is YouTube. So like long form. We're starting to dip into that a little more. we're

mi we're maybe hitting like one long form a month right now. We'd like to get to the point where we're hitting like two to three, and then breaking that up. But our goal is also to provide some education because we can't help every client. So like some of the stuff it's cool. We've got some comments like, Hey, what you did, this really helped me understand like what I should do on my project. So like

That's rewarding too.

Jesse Sampley (53:08)

This is what this is the strategy we've been using for a while, which is look we do we do a a search audit to see.

Within a certain geographical area, what people are asking certain questions, those become the topics for what the video gets made. So especially if you do an easy question-answer style video so that you're not having to read off of a script. Some people need need a script and and that's fine. But the important thing is let's go ahead and list out what our topics are gonna be for the video.

After that video is done, you've got that transcription of what you've just said, which now can be repurposed into the blog. It can be repurposed into social media content. It can repurp be repurposed to several different things. but you've only spent the time recording that one video. So it just becomes that kind of becomes the very top of the funnel, and then everything else gets based off of that transcription. And even this podcast, I do the same, which is then taking that full transcription.

And then embedding it into an article, which then it feeds it to AI for people where they're having questions, which you know what questions they're asking because you've already done the research from the beginning. So then you're answering that as well. So it becomes really efficient to say, I'm only using, you know, an hour of Heath's time, but now I've created maybe 40 pieces of content. But

Heath Cillessen (54:30)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (54:31)

you know, all he did was give us an hour of his time, you know, once a month or something.

And I I've found that it it snowballs like that. And you don't have any you're not gen what you're generating is not just kind of, whatever there's there's more strategy behind what you're doing because you're actually pulling what people are searching on Chat GPT or Google or whatever, you know, wherever people are searching.

Heath Cillessen (54:54)

Yeah, and I used to I've always wanted to do more with Instagram as a builder. I mean I I started following some of the builders early on. I can

think of NS builders and R buildings, like some of those guys who are really big in Instagram. and, you know, I think I followed them probably eight, nine years ago. And so I tried and I kept trying and trying, but it for me it was about you know, once we were big enough having someone full time who just does it. or

If you're not to that size as a builder, getting someone who you can hire as a subcontractor or someone to do it part time, you know, even if it's

like you said, ta spending an hour hour or two a month, just finding that manageable cadence that can just be repeated over and over again is is important, I think.

Jesse Sampley (55:42)

Do you mind telling people what you pay for what people could expect to pay if they were looking for someone that would, you know, shoot their someone that's like, Man, I if I'll just pay you to do it, but you come up with the ideas, you shoot the content, you edited it, and then you publish it to my

Heath Cillessen (55:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (55:59)

social channels. Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (56:00)

Well it's it's much different with us in house and I I don't really feel comfortable sharing what we p pay our employees online, I guess. but as far as like I I believe we paid a third party person before and it was anywhere from like fifteen hundred to two thousand a month. But that was a lot of content too back then, from what I remember. So, you know, you look at that, you're talking

what, maybe twenty to thirty thousand dollars a year somewhere in though in there.

that is a that is an investment. it's definitely an investment, but it's y again, that's where I say it's more of a long term investment. I I feel it's something you'll see the results. I I don't know, you you probably have more of a handle on the monthly spend than I do for someone third party, I guess. but yeah

Jesse Sampley (56:54)

There's there's a lot of

different perceptions, you know, when when people are looking at specifics because there's so much.

there's the video content side, there's an SEO and and AI side. There there's so much. And then there's it tends to be a little bit different depending on what what side of the country you're on to. and sometimes there's just, you know, a more competitive market. We're we're pretty close to Orlando here in Florida and there's just a lot of people doing it. You know, so you can be pretty Yeah. I I'll hire local crews to go and and shoot content and that price that they charge, you know, just depending on where they are in the country can

can differ a little bit. So always just pass that on

Heath Cillessen (57:29)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (57:31)

to them and say, hey, because you're in a more saturated market, you yeah, I can be a little bit more aggressive on a negotiation because, there's twenty people to choose from, which which is real nice.

Heath Cillessen (57:42)

What do you see is like from the contractors that you've worked with throughout the States, like what do you see is what they may spend for a third party company, like to do it?

Jesse Sampley (57:53)

do it if it's content, it's usually around that

two thousand to four thousand range. A lot of it depends on what the frequency is. I found that that strategy of use you know, a lot of people they've got limited time, you know, and it's like,

Heath Cillessen (58:06)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (58:07)

hey, I I I know this is important, but like at the end of the day, you know, I've got to make sure that my jobs are moving along and I've got to, you know, make sure that if there's mistakes that I'm I'm I'm here. So depending on how established they are, like that two to four thousand dollar range. and then it really if

If someone's trying to do be pretty specific with, hey, I'm trying to show up for a certain certain result. You know, when someone asks Chat GPT a question or they're asking, you know, everything is AI now. Like even if you ask Google, it's Google's AI that gives you the answer first. And then it's a Google ad, and then it's another Google ad. And then it's the actual organic. So like people are bypassing a lot of the ads and just going directly to, hey, just feed me the answer.

I don't I don't want to be shown whatever someone's paying for. I just want to I want the answer, depending on who that person is. So you know, that, you know, I have found that, you know, four or five grand, you know, it can really get into, you know, however high someone wants to go, but like the higher you pay per month, then like you need a pretty crystal clear ROI of at least three X and be able to know, hey, if I'm giving you a dollar, make sure you're giving me three dollars.

So that you know, at some point an investment is supposed to give you some dividends and and give you a return. You know, that's the point of the investment. So when it's just, you know, I tell people start with content because that's the you can use it so many different ways and so many different places, and it can use it to establish yourself. But then you're kind of holding on to all of those transcriptions and all of that content that you can repurpose later. But you know, get comfortable with knowing.

Hey, I I've got I've got proof now that what the effort I'm putting into it, I'm starting to see some results just on an awareness side. And of course, obviously they're gonna see those, like you said, if if it's a if it's twelve months, you're gonna see that, even if it's just locally. And, you know, when people start talking about you, it's kind of the the dis Walt Disney phenomenon, which is, you know, you're just always trying to be top of mind and you know, always be seen, always be

being talked about and make sure that it's it's matched with who you are as a brand, and if if that's comedy and and you know that that makes sense for you, then great. If not, please stay far, far away from it.

Heath Cillessen (1:00:23)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (1:00:24)

Cause you can deteriorate, you know, some good branding and from established people just by being, you know, unnecessarily silly. Yeah. We don't want to erode any trust.

Heath Cillessen (1:00:32)

Yeah. Yeah. The yeah. Yeah, I I I believe that's what that's what's interesting about the the content

creation side of things is you know, even if it does cost you, you know, two to four thousand a month, you know, let's say you do it for a year, but as a result of doing that you maybe get let's say it's only two or three opportunities and you close one of Most of the opportunities we're talking about as builders are should be more than three.

Six figures, way more than three figures, but more than six figures and sometimes seven figure projects. you know, you

close one of those, you're definitely tripling your money. at the end of the day. And so that's what I I do feel it's more of a long term and what's what's been a actually a really cool flip in it for us just recently in the last couple of months is we've been able to get our clients like really discounted or free product. we've got some like features from brands. So

That's kind of also helped it like to where we're actually getting a little bit of money back

from it, which is is cool too. Yeah, more like brand brand deals in a in a sense.

Jesse Sampley (1:01:43)

Well there's there's your sixth leg over here is your is your market is your builder marketing agency.

Heath Cillessen (1:01:46)

Yeah. yeah. Can't have too many of those, so we gotta keep it right where it's at for now.

Jesse Sampley (1:01:54)

You already have a studio. I'm I'm seeing where you're going, Heath. You're a smart guy. Yeah.

Heath Cillessen (1:01:57)

Yeah, yeah.

Jesse Sampley (1:02:00)

Well man, this has been this has been awesome. Is there anything that we didn't touch on that that you would like to

that you would like to tell, younger builders, older builders, or even customers, that may be listening to this that, want to learn a little bit more about you.

Heath Cillessen (1:02:12)

I I think starting a business when I was twenty two was a hard thing to do. But I learned a lot along the way. my wife has been super supportive through the whole thing. I mean, we've had deal with ups and downs through owning a business, but also been one of the more rewarding things, I'd

say. you know, as with anything, you gotta put the work in. you. hard.

if you do that, I feel like there's always gonna be, you some reward to it. And so But

Jesse Sampley (1:02:42)

Yeah. As the old proverb says, all hard work brings a profit. And it it really is a mindset to not be afraid of of working hard, going the extra mile, even if it's not the the labor side of the hard work. It it's it's a lot of work, as you know, to manage a team and you know, work with with customers and and handle the the problems and you know, all the work everything that comes along with with running a business, but it can be like you said, it can be so rewarding.

Heath, yeah, this was amazing. How can people connect with you? if it's Instagram or website, but if people want to learn a little bit more about you or or the company, what's the best way for them to get in touch?

Heath Cillessen (1:03:19)

Yeah, definitely. So our Instagram is Cillessen Construction Company. It's spelt just like that there. That comes through. And then

yeah, so our and then our website is cillessenconstruction.com. again we we service everyone in the Denver Metro Boulder and into the front range of the Rockies. So we'd love to help you out if you have a project over here. If not, hopefully follow us along on Instagram or social media so maybe we can give you some project insight on dealing with your project.

So

Jesse Sampley (1:03:47)

Wonderful. Yeah, thank you

for having us. Absolutely. Thanks so much. Yeah. All right.