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Accepted Answer

Shane Bogden (00:07.309)

Okay Well, you probably tell by me I like I mean I can put my foot in my mouth pretty easily Since you're north of the border border. I'm not sorry south of the border. I don't feel so bad I mean, maybe if I do say some stuff, I mean, I mean I it's Okay, sounds good I told you know, I I say it as it is I really do like

Jesse Sampley (00:13.326)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (00:21.674)

It, yeah, all, you can't say anything wrong on this podcast. It's very, it's very real.

Shane Bogden (00:33.703)

I want to do more like my daughter's my daughter and my son are coming part of it now there she's 27 and she's done a lot of marketing she did my website and she's doing she were slowly integrating and my son's 21 and he was cribbing for two and a half years now he's gonna frame with my framer I just want him to get more of a feel of he's a hard worker but you know then there's the the other side of things where you're dealing with the clients and actually selling two million plus home you know million dollar home so that's a skill on

Jesse Sampley (00:49.634)

Okay.

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (00:57.57)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (01:01.925)

I don't know how you, I mean I'm still learning and I've been doing this for how long, No.

Jesse Sampley (01:05.058)

I don't, yeah, I don't think you ever do figure it out honestly. I don't think you should, you know, cause it's changed so, so often, but you know, my, my dad was a home builder and he, I got to see firsthand just everything that went into it. And he did that on purpose. So he, he first made us work with all the subs. So he said, you know, we're going to go from, and he would pay us depending on the project too. He would say, Hey, you know, I could get, I could get a sub out here to do this for 10 grand. I'll let, I'll let you do this.

Shane Bogden (01:14.342)

Okay.

Jesse Sampley (01:33.382)

I'll help you, but you know, I've got the time, so it's going to take longer. I'm going to pay you less, but you know, he, gave us those opportunities for, for certain things, but it really taught us like one value the subs because those guys, mean, like they're, they're just amazing. And if you have a really good sub, then like, you really need to keep those guys happy and keep them around, which is always a dance sometimes.

Shane Bogden (01:39.237)

word.

Shane Bogden (01:54.183)

for sure.

Jesse Sampley (01:57.998)

and then just the, just like on a general foundation side is the, you know, just hard work, you know, of like work ethic, hard work, waking up early, planning the day, you know, just, just working through all of those challenges that come through like that. I don't care what you do in life. Like that's such a good foundation.

Shane Bogden (02:16.647)

Yeah, well, you know, and I think like you just stated, you really have to learn. It's not, you know, it's not like we're, okay, you're gonna be a brain surgeon tomorrow and start working on those brains or whatever. I mean, you gotta get educated and stuff, but I mean, being a contractor and a home builder, like again, depending on what your model is or your ambition, I mean, you know, you have to obviously take that in account of.

You know, have, mean, you're going to learn by mistakes, I guess. Like again, back to a brain surgery, he can't learn by mistakes. You better be, first time you're killing your patients. I mean, but I get like, for me, from when I started, I was born in the dirt. My dad owned gravel trucks and skidsters and stuff. So I was driving trucks when I was early. I played hockey, I played at a high level, but I was, so my dad, I mean, I wouldn't say my dad wanted me to get into the business, but it was kind of one of those.

Jesse Sampley (02:51.438)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (03:01.131)

Okay.

Shane Bogden (03:11.537)

You know, I knew I had a brain on my head, but I never worked hard in school because I was playing hockey. I, and again, I had the NHL dream, you know, and again, the other kid in Canada, what else is there? So you're out on the rink every day. And so anyway, when I, when I got to, I bought my own truck, I guess, with my dad at 18. And then we drove for, or we, you know, for off and on for both four years, I guess, somewhere around there. I was driving at 16, 17 prior to that, but I,

But it was Feaster family. Like with a tandem gravel truck, it's like in our climate in Canada, as you can tell, got, you know, it's still snowing. It's April and we snowed yesterday here and like other times it's, we're cutting grass. Like it's weird. Like it's a weird year this year. Like we don't get the cold, cold, crazy like long droughts anymore of like two months of really nasty weather. But so now we just don't know what, you know, it's just weird. It's a weird climate these last 10 years for sure.

Jesse Sampley (04:08.206)

.

Shane Bogden (04:11.815)

But back with the trucking, was just, like I said, you'd, know, October could snow and then that's it, you're done. And then you're praying for snow because then you could do snow removal. And then you'd have to, you got your startup costs in the spring and then you got to look for the work. And I was like, I can't do this. There's no flipping way, you know, like, mean, and hockey was okay, maybe this wasn't going to happen, you know, at that, in the, these, this element type of thing or timeframe. So I went back to school and in the midst, I was working for a commercial.

Jesse Sampley (04:21.901)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (04:41.627)

builder. I, were kind of getting you here, you work so long, I'm sure it's down there and then they'll send you to school for carpentry school. And we have the programs here. So you'd work for six months and then you try to book it for the winter so you could be off and go to school for six weeks or eight weeks and then come back to the job. So I did that for two years and they were apprenticing me and I was like, my God, they're making me like the company man.

You know at 24 25 I was running little small jobs and you know, and I was making I think the most money at that time. I was like a 90 I was probably up to like 17 bucks an hour or something. I don't know I can't remember and But you know, they were grooming to be a company man and I knew just my mentality I was I couldn't work for the man, you know like or whatever you want to call it and I would my biggest thing is because I came from equipment background and then I would you know,

Jesse Sampley (05:34.402)

you

Shane Bogden (05:40.103)

They would just make me move like, move that lumber shit, because I'm a pretty big guy. And I mean, it'd be like, move that lumber from A to B and then bring it back to C. And I'd be like, what? Like we got a backhoe, or mean a hoe with a, or whatever, a lift with forklifts. Like why am I loading this stuff? So anyway, it was really frustrating and that was kind of got me. And I knew I had a brain, but I knew after I was done hockey and everything else could calm down, I could maybe focus back to school. So at 26, I went back to school. I was still working full time.

And I got a four year degree in bachelor, like a bachelor of management and a finance degree. Cause I was like, I'm not going to construction. I'm done. I'm going to be a finance guru or whatever. And, and what happened was I, up here, I guess the boom, like it started to really pick up around 2000 and I was still in school. And I, what I did was I ended up buying a condo in my own building, with the help of my mom actually. And I, and the thing was.

It was kind of, we were having our first child, or we had our first child, we gonna be having our second, and I was like, I'm in university, and I thought, we'll buy this, and you come live over here, and then I'll have full-time babysitting. And so I bought that, and I thought, well, and then I did get a small little inheritance from my godmother. She passed away, and I knew if I had a little bit of money, there wasn't much, it was like 40,000. I said I would go into real estate. I had that already in my headset. So I bought a condo, and then I,

told my mom, said, well, this gives us a chance I could renovate it. So I ended up renovating it. Then I moved up, like was in the same building. I moved up in there and then renovated my own place and then moved back. It was weird. And in the midst of all that, my mom's like, I've never lived in a condo. I'm not living in a condo. And I'm like, well, now what do I do? So then I had to put it up for sale. And so long story short, I bought it for like 43 grand. I put like six grand equity and, you know, new toilets, really, you know, it's a thousand square foot condo.

and I sold it for $102. I didn't even know what I was doing, but I set precedents in the building. I ended up getting three more units. I went down to the bottom of the lobby and I posted, hey, is anybody interested in selling? And I got a couple calls that night, instead of, you know, don't go through a realtor and pay the fees. I went upstairs and I saw the couple units and they already did some renovations. So I was like, oh, great. And I actually got them cheaper. I bought them cheaper and then I sold. So was like, oh, look at me.

Shane Bogden (08:05.575)

I'm Donald Trump or whatever, know, whatever. I didn't know what I was doing. But I flipped three of them and then I built my own house, which I still live in right now. It's not too far from the condos. And I built this in 12 weeks and I moved in for 14 weeks. And that's when I knew, I'm like, okay, well, wait a minute. Like, maybe this is my calling. So I went out and I built probably three to four other specs. And then I incorporated into O2 for Katie and Tess and Bill Holmes. And my dream is always to go.

Jesse Sampley (08:32.494)

Wow.

Shane Bogden (08:34.791)

to the luxury brand. When you're young, you drive around to some of these show homes and you're dreaming with your whatever. When you're young and oh, this would be just so nice or whatever. So there were some names in Edmonton that I really admired growing up. Needless to say, I don't admire anybody anymore because I'm the top of the top, truthfully. Unfortunately, in Edmonton, I assume you probably talked to a lot of builders.

In Canada or in Alberta especially and in Edmonton, it's Poser syndrome. Like everybody thinks they can build a home. it's just the problem up here right now, what we're facing, yes, I didn't have credential. I had all this knowledge from working with a commercial builder and my dad, know, been around construction my whole life and I built specs on my own, but I did a good job. Like I knew what I was doing.

But it was live and learn but now when you see in our market and the amount of money that people spend like the biggest increment of money they're gonna spend in a lifetime and they just go to the they chase the bottom they go to the like this like I built two homes. Well, he's you know, he can do it for him like yeah He'll do it for you for sure before he does it

Jesse Sampley (09:50.595)

And then what happens? What happens when they do? They go with that builder that's only built a couple. They go with the lowest price. Like, what are the horror stories?

Shane Bogden (09:58.91)

Well, this is the thing that and I'm you know I've been more even when I started and I was 30 like let's say I built those specs and I Incorporated I would have been like 32 and when I started building I always overbuilt any area I was like if you call them the cookie cutter homes and I'm in there I put exposed aggregate I do stucco, you know, I do rhodi ray like I

All these other ones were just, you know, vinyl siding and just shitty, you know, just low product, right? Cookie cutter material. And then I would see some of these guys, so-called same thing, thinking that they're builders. And I would be so, I'd make them cry on the street. I'd be like, you're embarrassment. Like, because you always hear the same story. you know, if you ever talked to, sure friends and family like, oh, I'll never build again. That was the worst experience ever. That builder didn't know, you know, whatever the issue was.

So I took that at heart and I knew my, like I got some advice very early on from a gentleman here and I'll be honest with I didn't even know his name. We were at a restaurant one day and he was sitting across from me and it was like a Friday afternoon. So I sat down, got invited to the table. There was probably about 15, 20 people at this table. And I'm sitting beside, in front of this.

gentleman and he's he's got to be probably 75 so I'm I'm probably 35 at that time I've built I'm starting to build you know build up a few homes there type of thing and I was probably when I started was doing like five to seven homes but the smaller ones right and I kept kind of notching up anyway so

Jesse Sampley (11:34.606)

square footage roughly on those smaller rooms.

Shane Bogden (11:37.223)

Those ones were, kind of like, they call them like the raised bi-level or they were probably around 1400 on two levels, know, two levels, 1400, 1500 and that, and some two stories that were same thing, like 2200, like 900 square feet on the main floor. And then maybe you'd get 1100 on the, like you'd go over the garage a little bit, like our house in here, we do have basements. Like we, you know, we, we, we don't just do on slab. So you have the basement square footage too. So if you.

Jesse Sampley (11:44.875)

Okay.

Shane Bogden (12:06.663)

If you calculate the basement square footage, those houses could be three, 3,500 complete, right? And they're not, it's still a good size, but I mean, but yeah. So, but that day really stuck in my, my mind. I went in there and I mean, my head was this big. I'm like 35. I'm, I'm doing five to seven. I have no angel investors. I'm like, look at me go. I'm Mr. I get up in the morning at three in the morning. I do all my paperwork. I go out, I do my site visits. Let's say I got three houses going.

Jesse Sampley (12:15.672)

So you build a couple of those.

Shane Bogden (12:36.399)

And then from, my kids were little, right, so I could work and be on the tools from 10 till midnight or whatever I had to do. There was finishing or whatever, like I can do everything. I'm not saying I can do it now, I'm probably not very good, but back then I would try anything. So this gentleman across from me, he, when I babbled and, you know, I don't know, who was asking me questions like, hey Shane, you're doing so well. And of course I'm babbling off my mouth.

So he sat there real quietly and then after I finished spooing my mouth off, he sat back and goes, so you say you're a builder. And I'm like, yep, I'm a builder, I'm a custom builder. He goes, he goes, sounds like you're a trade wanting to be a builder. Cause I'm trying to tell him like how much work I can do. You know, on those houses, if you could do some sweat equity, you can even save 10, 15 grand. You know, like if you form up your own concrete, if you're my wife's, my father-in-law was electrician. So I would bring him from North Dakota.

and he would do the electrical up here. Long as it was your own house, these were the spec houses in the beginning, long as they were under your own house, you didn't have to have the designation now. I couldn't do that now, unless it was my own house. But if I was building for you, couldn't, I have to have master electricians, right? But anyway, so this gentleman, I apologize, I don't know his name, but he was very wealthy after I understood.

Jesse Sampley (13:51.736)

Okay.

Shane Bogden (13:59.911)

He sat there and he goes, so it sounds like you're a trade wanting to be a builder. And I'm like, what are you talking about? In my head, I'm like, you're an asshole. You know what I mean, or whatever. And he's like, well, can I give you some advice? And I'm like, yeah, sure, old timer. Whatever you want, just go ahead. Tell me what you got. And he's like, well, that's exactly how I started, just to let you know. And he didn't tell me what he was doing. He was probably 75, somewhere around there. was in good shape, but he was fairly up there. And he said, this is the advice I'm going to give you.

You can either be lean and mean or big is beautiful, but you can't play this in between game. And I was like, what are you talking about? didn't, you know what I mean? I didn't really kind of clue in to kind of what he was, mean, I was young and just whatever. it did resonate to me after watching a lot of builders come and go, because I've been around for 20, I've been building for 28 years.

So I've seen a lot like you turn around you're like where did this guy come from and he's building 15 houses and 15 the next and then he's done he's you know disappeared he's bankrupt and I'm like so that's where his mindset was he was trying to explain to me like and I am I'm leaning me I don't how I try to keep my overhead very low and I keep 95 % of my same trades and suppliers like we were just saying like how you want if you got a good team in front of you and because I played hockey that's my mindset I have a

under the Cadian envelope, that's, or umbrella, that's what you're getting. But I'll tell you, it's hard to make a sale. people just consistently, well, what's your square footage? What's this? What's that? My specifications now, since I've been doing this so long, are, I want to say probably for sure, one of the highest, if not the highest in the city of Edmonton and surrounding area. Like concrete, strengths, everything, all my specifications, because I look at it, I would rather lose as a builder.

putting that, I know that sounds probably a terrible business plan, but I mean, I would rather either do it at cost or relatively like if I was building for Jesse and you wouldn't be, like I said, you're green, you don't know anything, but I'm like, hey, listen, we're putting the higher strength concrete in here. I'm not trying to please anybody. just know if this is your forever home, you want me to build that home for

Jesse Sampley (16:15.724)

Yeah. How and how do you communicate that with people then?

You know, and, maybe tell us a little bit about that. You're the people that you are building for. Cause this sounds like a real strong piece of like, if, if you could get people to understand, like this is the type of builder you are, this is the character, this is the integrity. Like this is the links that we're going to go to, to actually make sure that you get this home versus this home and you'll appreciate it. And you know, you may not notice anything for the next 15 years, but like, that's a lot to try to communicate when people are like, just looking at a budget. Unless it's not that type of.

of customer, know, and money's not the first priority. It's more of like, man, I'm looking for a real home builder, someone that can actually kind of bring my either vision to life or someone that can build me a home that like, this is just the best home. That's a lot to communicate.

Shane Bogden (17:05.927)

And well as you can tell you get verbal diarrhea right off the bat You're trying to sell yourself in front of somebody and then sometimes you walk back and like even my wife's heard me and it's like Shane but you give them too much information and I'm like well if I don't give enough information off the start then they just go to the next guy and I'm not here to slam you know other builders which of course I love to and I go toe-to-toe with any of them like I would I honestly would because I see it in a daily basis like even in the areas, but again

back with this lean and mean mentality, I only build, I'm low volume. Is it, you know, I could not accomplish what I've done in the homes that I do if I wanted to go bigger because nobody has the knowledge that I have. And you know, you have to learn that. you were just, we were looting that like with my son, the same thing and my daughter, like you can't just throw them, okay, you're go build a two or $3 million home. Like that just doesn't work. The issue,

Like I said back in Edmonton and maybe Alberta and probably anywhere if there is a boom going on or what have you it's like everybody just picks up the hammer and I'm a builder or I'm a contractor I can do that and I'm want to reverse it all the time where like right now what I see in Edmonton and some of the areas it's just like I could send you videos just to show you how bad some stuff like people send me and I'm like I don't even want to see it it's just embarrassing like I'm but backtracking with

Jesse Sampley (18:14.37)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (18:33.999)

Like for me to pick on that so-called poser builder that thinks he's a builder I really don't care what I want to pick on is that client like how did you get to that to the like? Where did you think you were gonna save some money? Going that route like it makes no sense again anybody with some common sense in this world knows you usually pay for what you get and The the funny thing is they don't do their due diligence. So even when a client we

comes to me, I'm giving them all this information explaining like, hey, go talk to the other builder, ask them how many houses you're doing, I'm doing 35. Okay, how many superintendents do you have? One. Well, we're on the list on that. Do you really think they're gonna respond to you when you want that closet moved over 16 or whatever, you know what I mean, or what have you? So when you're dealing with an entity, there is good and bad obviously on my side because I'm one guy. Like I take the phone calls.

I have the team in front of me. Yes, I am slowly expanding, but I didn't jump to where, you know, just jumped into it and say, hey, I'm going to hire this and try to figure it out. You know, I had to learn the hard way, I guess. And I'm not anywhere where I need to be probably financially. Like I can't close the doors tomorrow and hey, I'm retired, I'm gone. I'm, that's not me. I don't retire off one house. Like that's the other thing that I try to explain to clients. Like you do pay for what you get, but on my end of things,

Like I never come back for like, it's always a cosmetic, you know, my door sticking or this or that. So that type of track record. Now you can go back and say, well, yeah, Shane, you only do one or two or three homes a year. You should be good, right? And that's, that's what I sell.

Jesse Sampley (20:12.972)

Right. Yeah. You're focusing on a hundred percent quality. You know, it is not the volume. Now you what, what model are you running off of? You said you're not doing cost plus, but what's, what's the.

Shane Bogden (20:17.307)

Yeah, it's still...

Shane Bogden (20:24.343)

Sorry, yeah, so I if you go back on my website actually My soe guy I told him I said this is the issue where people don't understand like if you came to me just like like, know Johnny Johnny rocket homes over there wants to do cost plus why won't you do and I'm like well A There's I'm a way different builder than he is like if you're doing cost plus that gives the That gives both parties the option to leave

Right? Like you'd have, you get to a certain point in the build and you're like, Shane, I don't need you. I'm gone. And these.

Jesse Sampley (20:59.362)

And that's happened before. Unfortunately, I was just talking with a lady down here in Florida. That's exact same thing that happened to her. mean, horrendous. mean, it's a whole story of its own, but I mean, that's exactly, they got up to the point of drywall and said, we'll take it from here.

Shane Bogden (21:14.981)

Well, they ate because they don't believe in their own product and they don't believe that. Like I used to tell this too and now I think I got over this since I'm older and there was a lot of anxiety of completion. Like there really is like to take home over the finish line, right? That's a lot of anxiety. when you, you know, when any, anything you do in life and you sit down and you have that task in front of you, you're, this is going to take a long time. Like I have to do this, this and that. And you talk yourself out of it.

Jesse Sampley (21:32.654)

You're very good.

Shane Bogden (21:44.231)

I'm not any different when I look at some of these homes, I'm like, oh my God, like this is gonna be challenging, you know what I mean? But now I'm past that where I'll do anything. care, you know what I mean? I've done it long enough that the anxiety's gone. The assurance and the confidence is there. But I mean, I couldn't imagine somebody starting off. But anyway, back with this cost plus, this is the example that you're trying to show to people.

That just let's talk Katie and homes. I've been doing this nobody taught me this how I would structure my contracts and how I've done it I don't know how I learned or whatever, but that's the way don't tell me I'm gonna tell you it's not always easy because I think my contracts more of a hybrid contract I'll get into that in a second, but back with the cost plus I tell clients Okay, you now we have an agreement where you can leave or I could leave if you're a troubled Client great. I'm out

You paid for that last thing. Even if I walked away with a few dollars missing, you know, that's fine. But there's no accountability on me. I give Jesse, okay, you want to do cost plus. I'm going to give you three framers and buddies, five bucks cheaper, square foot. My guy is $5 more. And then I don't know where the hell you got this guy, but he's, he's like in the middle. Where do you want to be? Well, you know, if we save that 15 grand on floor or on

Jesse Sampley (22:40.717)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (23:10.311)

on framing, know, maybe I could do whatever. don't know. that, you want to say. Again, high end custom, you these numbers are probably a little bigger, but anyway, so then I'm giving you that control on the same token you're sitting there, well, Shane, now that's your expertise, like you've got a babysitter. I'm like, no, like I'm not taking responsibility. If you wanted to use my guy, 100%. But now we don't even know, I'm using somebody as a guinea pig.

Jesse Sampley (23:15.276)

Yeah, put it in the kitchen or something like

Jesse Sampley (23:39.672)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (23:39.793)

He might give me a task to drop, not saying that he couldn't, but now we're taking a chance of a home that is supposed to be your forever home. And you have no warranty on, like, you know, like we have new home warranty up here, but on the same token, we would have a side, you know, as a cost plus contract stating that you brought your trades in. I'm there to facilitate, but really I'm only coordinating. Where's the...

Jesse Sampley (24:04.174)

And it's of undermining like your, it's undermining your expertise a bit too, because like you have a team that you're that I can deliver this product just like I've done before. But then when you start eroding that and you start trying to use different people or other products and all this other stuff, it starts to erode your, you know, a lot of value that to the table. Yeah.

Shane Bogden (24:12.529)

Well, yeah.

Shane Bogden (24:26.439)

Well, you're the brand that you're trying to build like I tell everybody the same thing it's like you're you're it's like you're gonna go to Ford and you're gonna go down to Napa and get your brake pads and you're gonna come back to Ford say hey I got these over here cheaper put these in and Back to back to my model again Jesse is and this another side though the last ten years or so I'm really tailored

Jesse Sampley (24:42.646)

What is it? It avoids the warranty. What's it do? Yeah, it avoids.

Shane Bogden (24:56.487)

to the entrepreneurs because most of them are the ones that can afford these type of homes, right? Unfortunately, unless you've got any of their, but I also have a list going down like who I don't want to bill for it. You want a lottery? Nope. You're a brain surgeon? Nope. You're lawyer? Nope. Like, you know, there's certain criteria that I really kind of, you know, I'm not saying I wouldn't bill for them, but there's kind of like, I got to really feel them out to understand.

Jesse Sampley (25:17.442)

Really?

Shane Bogden (25:23.047)

I've been around enough to know if they're going to be problematic or not.

Jesse Sampley (25:25.964)

What other categories are in that? You said entrepreneur.

Shane Bogden (25:29.903)

Well, that's mostly the ones that come to me. And then if we had this conversation, if I was 35 and we were trying to go back and have this conversation, I'd say, Jennifer, you're freaking crazy. There's no way I'll deal with an A-type personality because I can't deal with that mindset. I'm like, you're nuts. I don't want to, know, people calling me at 1130 at night. This is when I first started. And I'd answer the phone and it would be like, you know, I was out at the site and my footings look like they're off a little bit.

So I can't sleep, it's two in the morning, I get up, I'm out in the middle of the dark, in the middle of the night, you know, tape measure, and I'm like, what the hell am I doing? Like, it's fine, and then get back, and I don't do that anymore, but you when you start off, always kind of get, get pushed around is the word, I guess, but yeah, it's the cost, like back with this cost plus, it's not good. And not to mention, and not trying to be the other, let's say somebody comes and says, well, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna build this multi-million dollar old for a cost plus 10%.

200 million, or sorry, 200 million, two million, you're not getting 200,000, you're gonna get 170,000, 175, got taxes and everything else to take it there. So, like I was saying, there's no award there system at all. And again, you're, as a home builder, it's not so much the profit, it's more the control is what needs to be in hand. You need to fully trust the builder with his capabilities, and that's where the references come in.

For me, it's like, here's my last house I did, here's one prior to that, here's five years ago. Call somebody 10 years ago and ask them if Jack, my electrician who did your house and Maron did the plumbing. They're all the same guys. Like nobody, like I try to tell, that's how I try to sell it, but it's like they don't understand that. It's like falls on deaf ears, Jesse, like straight up. They're worried, everybody at the end of the day is worried about the price or how much are you making? It's like.

That's irrelevant. Like again, back with that cost plus 10, let's say it's 10. Do you not think, I'm not saying I would do it, but let's say there was other builders, you're the framer, Jesse, we'll add on another 5 % for me, right? You know, like, I mean, there's ways to getting your margin up there. If you want to be sneaky, I'm not sneaky that way. I'm just like, this is what you're getting. So a flat fee builder, so let's say you, I come to build for you and you have this budget, I'll explain how I operate from the start.

Shane Bogden (27:55.023)

next but the back with the flat fee it's the same thing. If things go sideways and prices go up what happens? I chase the bottom. You have no idea who I'm bringing in on there and yeah I'm taking the risk but also I'm padding like I'm taking the money running and I'm chasing the bottom. I'm padding my pocket now. You have no idea like I have a client right now I'm dealing with and his brother-in-law built a couple doors down that we're gonna be starting and I said yeah like we're you know

That's a Durant, I don't wanna drop names, but it's not a very good window manufacturer. And I said, that's painted PVC black, that's not even cladded, metal clad. I go, that's a cheap product. The glass is from China, it's not good, I know it. I won't put it in my homes. And I said, call your brother-in-law, him what they gave him. He calls, he's like, it wasn't the price, I have no idea. I'm like, you didn't even get an allowance for your windows? So yeah, flat fee is definitely not.

It's good for the builder. shouldn't say that. I probably, like I thought about it, trust me. I think that would be a good way because you're not seeing any numbers or you're not trying to have your wheels spin where, let's say I have a $2 million contract. So, okay, let's just wipe the screen clear here for a second. How Katie and home is how I do it and how I've always done it. And this is, if you don't understand this, that's why I don't want to do business with people. I do tell them right off the bat.

I'm unique, keep 95 % of my same trades and suppliers. If you don't understand that, we have an issue right off the bat. That means my quality is consistent and I wanna get better. I'm not trying to get worse. And unfortunately, my trades are the top, like they're not starving. Like people's perception when they see some type of little slowdowns, like, oh, they gotta be starving. I'm like, no, they're not starving. They're the best of the best. They could care less, but they get paid well from me. That's why they come.

That's why your project will be cut down and completed. That's another side note. But on my behalf, so I usually take a retainer. Like let's say you came to me, and say, what type of host are we looking? Again, if it's budget that I'm not even, can't even build for, I don't get to that point.

Jesse Sampley (30:07.662)

You've got a bit of a perimeter. Kind of walk me through like how you qualify people and say, like before we, for us to even have the next conversation, like I've got to know these things before we can even go to the next step. Walk me through that whole process.

Shane Bogden (30:20.967)

Right. Well, so the first question, like I said, I usually ask where you heard of me and that sort of thing. go down that line. And then secondly, is this your forever home? Because if I hear it's for your forever home, then we're on the right wavelength. They should be on that same wavelength. We're looking for the best. Who is?

Jesse Sampley (30:41.742)

Again, you're trying that value because if it's like, I'm going to be in this home for five years, I'm looking for a builder. Those are a bit of an oxymoron sometimes because you're not really too concerned on quality because I'm just looking five years from the road.

Shane Bogden (30:47.259)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (30:54.055)

I'm out. Yeah. Like when the boom was coming, in 02 and 04, there was people that would buy a house and jump into it. they would, the market would move so fast that they would have more equity to the house that they just bought another house. It was just crazy. It was like, it was weird. It happened. I want to say in 08, like remember the crash in 08, same scenario. Like when I built for certain people and I want to say pre-COVID.

Jesse Sampley (31:15.863)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (31:23.111)

right before COVID, if you had a house on the market and you were gonna sell and I sold you a house, you would, by time, like when we were into COVID and we came out, and that house probably went up another 10, 15%. So let's say on a $700,000 or $800,000 house, and now they're moving to a 1.5 or 2 million, they made an extra 50 or 60 or 70 grand on that house. That doesn't happen that often. The homes now that I build, you know,

They first off I tell them it's a premium. It's not you're you're not getting a BMW for Kia pricing and you're not gonna sell Tomorrow after we finish my our home You're probably not gonna get what it's worth what you paid it to it because you can't you're putting in golf simulator You're doing this you got an elevator like that next person comes or I don't need an elevator But you know what mean? Like you're putting a lot of niceties So that's another perspective and if they have that I don't want to deal with them

If they really think their mindset is like, well, I don't want to go, you know, I want to be par. Like I want to know that I could sell that house the next, uh, next week and I can get what it was worth. And I'm like, the only way that would happen is if you had a piece of land that rose in value, like you bought something for 200, it's worth 400 or 500. Now we built a customized home. Well, you got equity because of that lot or the land value. You're not going to get it in the house.

Jesse Sampley (32:44.166)

Right. Okay. So this customer, they know this is their forever home. They're fine that you're using your own subs.

Shane Bogden (32:54.275)

Yeah. So the next next stage would be like, you know, like for yourself, Joe, I'd be like, there's a few meetings in the minds. Like we have to have some meetings and, you know, show you what I can do, what I'm capable of doing. And again, it's kind of the give and take situation. you know, I'm getting married with you, Jesse, you know, and in two and a half years, I want to be divorced. You can keep the house. If the dog doesn't bite, I'll keep the dog. But after that, we're done. You know what mean? That's it is you getting married. Like, I mean, other builders.

Jesse Sampley (33:13.89)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (33:20.15)

Yeah. Cause what's your average, what's the average build time?

Shane Bogden (33:25.511)

Well, lately I've been pushing over a year. You know, normally I was a five to seven, five to nine month build. And then now, like I said, everybody's on Pinterest. like I told you, we're doing golf simulators. We're elevators in the homes. We're doing such specialty. And when I was always big on lighting, and like, don't know if you ever get a check on my web, like my daughter's revamping the website. We had to take a lot of homes off because...

You know, they're done years ago. It looks so aged, right? So now like with the lighting, you know, the LEDs insane, like the house, you know, all your strip lighting, like we're doing it everywhere. Accent lightings everywhere. And I mean, I'm sure you've seen them and it comes everywhere down there. Like there's some gorgeous homes I see from Nashville and Texas and all that. But anyway, so yeah, these, these items are just consistently going. Like we have in-floor heating, which you guys don't need obviously, but we have

Jesse Sampley (34:08.514)

yeah.

Jesse Sampley (34:23.393)

you

Shane Bogden (34:24.57)

We have in-floor heating on the main floor, the garage, exterior pads. If you never want to shovel your driveway, can do in-floor heating. like all water mix so it doesn't freeze. And the boilers that we put in, they do run our domestic hot water as well. So it's an indirect hot water system. You'll have a holding tank, like a 75 or 80 gallon water tank, depending on the size of the home.

Jesse Sampley (34:34.862)

You're using water for all of that or are you using liquor?

Shane Bogden (34:52.775)

But most walkouts and we I mean, you know what a walkout is like the basement you can just walk out So those ones traditionally we you know, you don't have to buy code put in floor heating but it should be a it should be a must especially in our because our foundations, know, you can move pretty I mean I tell people all the time like we're just we're the only climate where you could have a t-shirt putting on your like, know 2 o'clock in the afternoon and it could go to minus 30 by 6 o'clock. You're like you got your

Jesse Sampley (34:56.686)

you

Jesse Sampley (35:06.605)

Okay.

Shane Bogden (35:22.139)

the boots and know, hat on or whatever, but yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, but so back with your question, you know, we have that meeting, we chat, we kind of get a budget in mind, like we, you know, again, most people will always under, under that, you know, come in low, that's pretty much the game. And they always got to, you know, because everybody has a budget, no matter if you're, you know, you have the money, you're, yeah, they always have a price.

Jesse Sampley (35:24.941)

Man, that's rough.

Jesse Sampley (35:42.85)

They always have rep rate. No truer words. Everybody has a budget. They may not know what it is yet, but everybody has a budget. They may just not have that number at the forefront, but they know what it is.

Shane Bogden (35:53.519)

Right. And that's the difficult part in what my job is because I don't know, like I don't price out. It's not like I'm doing a daily thing. Like the cookie cutter home builders, they're finance companies. They're not even builders. They take their money, their ratio of what, you know, we're going to buy 300 lots. We need 10 million or 12 million borrowing or whatever the hell they need. They get three plans. They get three different show homes around the city and they

you know, in their mind they're going to be selling those 300 homes. They'll get all the trades lined up. So if you were doing a framing, they'd get you down to the 50 cent, you know, whatever. And then then if something did bubble, they call you to give you the first guy, just your rates are dropped like, or, know, like they'll never go up. They'll either try to squeeze you like to go down. But I know that type of base, but that's where

people's misconception because if they went to a cookie cutter home builder and they're trying to take the square footage from them and they're like, hey, this is, you know, $325 a square foot where I'm 550, but the level of product you're getting in even a standard home is way far superior. It just adds up that quickly. But backtrack, so we have these meetings and then we get to meet my designer and...

Jesse Sampley (37:07.211)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (37:14.114)

This is in how this is a contract you work with.

Shane Bogden (37:17.027)

I have, so I've been with my designer for about 20, just over 20 years. So he had his own little office and stuff. Now he's retiring and you know, we're more mobile. it's everybody, like my, I've had three show homes back to back and I sold it about a year and a half ago, my last show home. And I don't know if I'll ever do another one because they're so expensive to maintain and you're really losing money. Like you don't, you know, even if you could break even on it.

Jesse Sampley (37:21.986)

Wow.

Shane Bogden (37:44.261)

I mean, depending on how long you hold it for. Like I held mine through COVID. I sold it the first day, like when I opened, people wanted it. And I'm like, no, no, we got to, it's here to showcase it. And then we went into COVID and I'm like, ugh. And I joked, said, why didn't I put suspended beams up here so I could hang myself? Because then it just died, right? Totally died. I'm like, it was terrible.

Jesse Sampley (37:52.43)

You

Jesse Sampley (38:04.182)

Is this because, is this kind of a shift just because there's so much, so many ways to show people things virtually or, know, just.

Shane Bogden (38:11.909)

Yeah, there's too much knowledge I think is a bad thing or the wrong knowledge I guess because they're getting it from sources that you know, like I said, you've worked before and they got a mindset. There's another thing that I really want to touch or kind of explain. I was a trade first and now I'm a builder. But like you said, I take care of my trade. I believe it's a give and take around like

My client should win, my trade, my supplier should win, and I should win. Not one person runs off in the sunset, we're freaking win the lottery or whatever, right? Like it, and you know what I'm talking about. There are crazy home, like I've heard it from other builders that have had problematic, I've been lucky, I've had pretty good run of clients. Nobody's ever really caused me that much grief.

Jesse Sampley (38:47.598)

I

Jesse Sampley (39:01.44)

It sounds like you've got a good qualifying process though. know, like you're, especially now with the experiences, like you're, really taking people through to make sure, Hey, are we a good fit? Because we are going to have this, you know, almost a year and a half relationship with each other where we're going to have.

Shane Bogden (39:10.683)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (39:15.143)

longer longer because you know you have your warranty after right so I hate to say that I don't want to want to say this but I mean most of my clients end up actually becoming friends I mean they do like I mean you spend so much time and that's oh yeah and I honestly

Jesse Sampley (39:29.154)

How could they not? My dad was the same way. He had a personal relationship with these people years and years down the road. And if it's like, I want to shop, I want to build something extra, they're going to call you. Of course they will. You built their house.

Shane Bogden (39:35.931)

What is?

Shane Bogden (39:42.715)

Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, my personality, I am a fairly large individual. I'm 6'4", I'm 200, I'm built. I've always been built. But I am a pushover in a lot of ways, right? I think they get that, they're custom and I always, my wife's always on my case, like, you you're too nice, or even my trades, like you don't have the word no shame, right? And I'm like, I know, like, I mean, it's like, yeah, we'll do it or whatever. So there is a lot of, like,

Jesse Sampley (40:04.096)

No.

Shane Bogden (40:10.597)

I watched the YouTube video of the other day and there's some guy on their own multi businesses. And I think the second business he said was the worst business was custom building. And I started to laugh. I'm like, yeah, maybe it's taken me this long to figure it out that this and that's true because a lot of builders start out and they try the custom and then they're gone. They can't put up with the clients. Like you, you know, you have some that have really crazy expectations. And like I said, I've been lucky I think cause I do.

educate and I really I am open and I do bend like I tell clients that I pivot in a dime like I'm not too worried about if we had to move something or whatever in my contract I even have like a $350, you know change order or administration fee. I never use it. mean I had one client a couple of houses ago and I kind of briefly kind of added it up and I said I'm not charging this thing's like what changes did I make? I'm like

What are you talking about? You changed on a daily basis. a change means that you call and you say you want that change and I got to call, you know, I got to cancel that order for that fireplace and we're getting this other one. Now my framers got to go and frame out that box bigger because you got a different fire plate. Like what are you, what are you not understanding with a change order? Like that slows the process down and costs me money. But they think builders, like they are big numbers. I'm not going to lie. Like when you think of a,

Jesse Sampley (41:30.456)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (41:37.031)

15 or 20 percent markup on a bill. That sounds like a lot of money, like I said, go three years into it. It's like, I'm working on Home Depot for wages, man. Like, I mean, and I got no benefits. Like, what are you talking about? And I'm warranting it. If something went sideways, where does that come? Where does that money come from? I'm not, again, that's not how I operate because I rarely, you know, I don't chase the bottom. If I did, I'd be sued multiple times and probably change my name half a dozen times by now, right?

Jesse Sampley (42:04.654)

Right.

Shane Bogden (42:06.085)

That's what they do. But back with my Canadian process, it's where we sit down, we're feeling it. You get to meet the designer, Russ, and you're comfortable. It's probably already a two week process already. I want you to get your, I call it a storyboard. It's not, I want to hear your story, what you want in that home. If you can put that together, pictures from Pinterest, whatever you got, and you can bring that to me and Russ, my designer.

We can go for it. Now, I tell them all the time, if you got a number in your mind, you better add 10 to 15, maybe even 20%. On a pure customized home, I don't know what you specifically want. I would love for you to go out today, pick everything, see you in 10 months or 11 months, house, give you the keys, walk off. That's cookie cutter. That doesn't work. This is an experience for you and I want it to be an experience for you, so you get to...

be in your home, get to be part of the experience. You're a partnership. That's the way I look at it. Because I need you as much as you need me. Because if something isn't registering that you don't like that, or maybe you did change your mind, well, I want to know about it ahead of time. when we get it all up and go, oh, maybe we should have moved that wall. We could have had that chance or whatever. we talk about the process.

Jam that down their throats. It's a process to get to a to be see like it doesn't happen overnight I don't know I I used to sit there and think like look at other builders and they look real successful I'm like they gotta figure it out. They must be doing something way different than I am like I'm I'm a caveman here like what's going on like I'm you know I'm banging my head against the wall to make things figured out but Truthfully, I don't think I think we all are in the in the same boat if you're a good custom builder and you care

I don't think you can really do anything else different than what I'm doing anyway.

Jesse Sampley (44:05.014)

Yeah. How do you control the, how do you put some sort of parameters on it just so that it's not.

Shane Bogden (44:10.375)

Well, that's the really tricky part because if you get a client that comes in and they have a perception or they're talking, they're talking to other people and they kind of want to baseline square footage price. I'm an open book. show you like just here's my last contract. Like you came and saw their house. Like that's a, you know, that's a 5,000 square foot, two story, triple garage walk out.

deck side to side, it's got an elevator, it's got this, and we're at 2.2 million dollar or whatever. You can kind of gauge that price point right there for, and that's top spec, that's acrylic, that's Euro-shaped recyclable rubber roof, exposed aggregate, you got a ton of culture stone, Luxe metal siding, like if you pull up my website, triple pane windows, Luxe, Luxe is my dealer that we deal with, and they're out of Calgary, they're the best of the best.

I'm the only one pretty much in the city overall that consistently stays with them. Other builders will flip back and forth because of the client's cost, right? And I think a lot of builders, I'm not one of them that will try to get you in the door, like just like, I'm gonna get you in the lowest possible knowing I'm gonna hit you in all these extras. I know where we're gonna be headed and that's where I try to explain to them. So really what Katie does from...

hard costs, or sorry, a flat fee to a cost plus, my contract is a hybrid. So if you can visualize on the left hand side, that's all your hard costs, that's your material, that's my profit, that's non-negotiable. You're just, you're not telling me who I'm using for a framer, or my electrician, my plumber, mechanical, concrete guys, roofer, siding, acrylic, nothing. Those are my team, that's who, that is my bread and butter, I mean that's what makes Gideon Holmes. On the right hand side,

Jesse Sampley (45:50.817)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (46:02.609)

Here's your, of course, here's your cabinets, your flooring, your countertops, you lighting fix, you know, your baseline, but then I go above and beyond that. I even give you, here's your garage doors, because there's so many elevat- you know, nice product out there. Maybe I give you an allowance for culture stone. Maybe I, and then, because things change so much, you know, let's say we designed an elevator shaft in the house, well, we price it out, just-

be argument say it's a two-story it's gonna be $50,000 here's your allowance because if we got going and you said shit like you could have trouble in your business I don't know something along the way and you're like how do we I need to cut this by a hundred grand or whatever well let's take the elevator we'll just build the shaft we'll put them in his closets and in the future date we can you if you want to put that elevator back in it'll be all roughed in for you and you're good to go so you can you know might have to cost you five grand to rough it in but

We'll leave it as is that way for you.

Jesse Sampley (47:01.922)

Going back to what you said earlier, said this a bit earlier is like, if you don't understand it, like you were probably not a good fit. You know, now that you've kind of explained it, it really does make a lot more sense of like, Hey, if you don't see the value of our team, hard costs, like this is like what you're actually contracting. Like you're attracting Katie and homes to actually do this. This is what we're entailed. And then there's the, finishes side, which can be adjustable. And we've got allowances for, for that kind of thing, but like you're not touching the core.

Shane Bogden (47:28.202)

No. But the problem is... Well, and again, like I have an individual, a big home coming up and we did the site plan and we're probably going to be pushing, I'm pretty sure we're going to be pushing 10,000 square feet of concrete. Like the front driveway and stuff is like a parking lot. Like you know what I mean? It's gorgeous. It's a, it's a about a 3,800 square foot or just over 3,800 square foot bungalow walk out, seven car garage. Beautiful. Like it's, I mean...

Jesse Sampley (47:28.502)

You know, this is, that's untouchable, not negotiable.

Jesse Sampley (47:52.674)

view.

Shane Bogden (47:55.719)

The client has such a great eye and he's been around the block and he knows what he wants and he worked, know, Russ, myself and him putting this together, but I got to give him kudos, but he's very particular. you know, I'm trying, you know, the numbers don't lie. You're trying to put this all together. And I'm like, to me, I don't think it sounds that much for that size of home. But when you presented to them, they got sticker shock and they're like, you know, like this ain't no $1.5 million house anymore.

You know, and I joke all joking aside, which is maybe not the best way to do business, but it's like, it's going up, but I don't know what to tell you. Like we're you're from day one from the design and we flip and we keep adding adding. what do you think the other misconception of people? And I probably did it when I was started early and you probably thought about, or did, know, everybody does. It's like, well, if you're doing more square footage, it should be lower. I'm like,

You know, I thought about that too. Like I use that sometimes on my trades. Like, Hey, say you're doing that 1500 square foot drive, you know, pad we're doing 2000. Can't you knock 50 cents off a square foot? And they're like, no, like, you know, like they would come back to me and we're going to add 50 cents more because it's getting bigger. And I'm like, so that's where I got to try to explain to the clients. Like there's no discounts just and there we have been in a demand market for, since I've started.

Like it's been like this, like we've maybe had a little bit of a lull, but anybody's ever, if you sat there while Shane scratching your head going, maybe I'll just wait for prices to come down. Okay, keep waiting. whatever we talk about right now, next year will be more. Like it's just, there might be a little, like I told you, the guys that when anything ever slows down here and I'm sure it's anywhere, some of the labor, know, framers might take a hit on a square footage, you know, or maybe some of the labor you could kind of.

go for it but other than that it's really you know lumber prices they got they got down to the board feet like you know across the whole city and surrounding area they're all very competitive so you it's not like I can you know and I

Jesse Sampley (50:03.128)

was just going to say, I would love to know, you know, it sounds like you have a really intense relationship with these people from, from the, even before they become a client, really qualifying these people really saying, Hey, are we a good fit after you take this, you know, year and a half to actually build someone's homes? What are, what are your customers saying after it's all done? Cause I would almost think there's, they say, Hey, thank you for being so hard on me from the beginning, because you know, you kind of prepared me for this whole process.

Shane Bogden (50:23.729)

Well,

Shane Bogden (50:27.419)

you

Shane Bogden (50:32.647)

They do I think they're like if you go back and you have a chat you can read some of the reviews just and we only post the ones that kind of the last few that are relevant and I always tell my clients, you know You can listen to me, know Babylon I'm a talking head whatever and I'd be the same way because if I feel like I use car sales and I hate those guys and then I'm like I'm one of them like I've got to talk my face off instead of shutting my mouth, but

If I, like I said, I'm more, I'd rather, when I speak to somebody, I tell them, would you want more information or do you want less? Like you, I can tailor it back. Like, just, I would love the client to come, and I hear it, I hear it from some builders, I've never had one, but Shane, here's what we want. Here's, you know, we have a budget, we a very good budget, and we don't mind going over, and let's get these plans done, get me a price, ASAP, let's get going. I'm gone to Arizona. I'm gone for six months.

We'll be on Zoom calls, but just I know we trust you, blah, blah, blah. And I've heard other builders, I'm like, how come I can't find those clients? Where are they? I need one of those, because man, I don't know. But actually, I don't. I love the challenge, I actually, when I try to allude to my kids, it's not about the money. It's not about the dollar. If you do good work, things should come, right?

Jesse Sampley (51:37.934)

you

Shane Bogden (51:57.039)

I'm not gonna lie, it's taking a long time. I I fight with myself internally because I get mad when I'm giving away too much and I think we're probably all that way. They'll never see that, that's the other thing. If I'm cutting my throat on something and when I'm putting a budget together, I know most of the bill, what do we do? We take off our profit right away. There's three framers and they're only five grand difference.

and I want the best of the best, well I'm going for the best. I'm not going for the, I'm not gonna try to save five grand there and put it in my pocket. It just doesn't work that way. So, and that's what I try to guarantee to my clients. Like I do not chase the bottom. This is the track record that I have. Call my last reference. If they throw me under the bus, I guess they do, but most of them I don't think. They know I'm a small entity and that's why, most of them that's why. They've gone through some of the builders.

And then if I get them in front of me, I usually got them after they spoke to other guys. not picking on other builders that have more volume, I would be in the same boat. How could you possibly give that same quality if I had 10 or 15 homes going a year? Impossible, because all my trades couldn't handle that.

Jesse Sampley (53:11.766)

Yep. Well, and again, it goes back to when you're qualifying these people, you're not the right fit for everybody and that's okay. You know, and not everyone is trying to get a legacy home built for themselves either. know, so just...

Shane Bogden (53:17.991)

No.

Shane Bogden (53:24.279)

No, and that's, like, I, one of my good friends, he, you know, and I'll go back to my daughter and she's young, but she, you know, she has good points, but she's like, Shane, let's go, you know, dad, let's go do something less. You know, like, let's get down. And I'm like, Megan, like, I can't, man. It's not an ego, like, I built this, you know I mean? Like, you built this reputation, like, in your side, like, it's me, like, I look in the mirror and I'm like, you know, like, I can't do that, I can't.

I know there are, my problem right now, Jess, is like, I think the first 15 or 20 years of business, or 15 anyway, I wasn't ostrich, I was, my head's in the sand, because I'm in the field, I'm working every day. And then you're trying to build a brand, and you're trying to do like, where I look at other successful, maybe even younger builders now, and it's the same mentality, they do more volume, more mistakes.

but they're elevating way higher, maybe they're just elevating higher. They're building more houses, they're more out in their face. Who's Katie at home? Well, he's built for 28 years, he's been corporate since 02, but I mean, we've never even heard of him. Not in some areas, because I know and sure, partly in an area where I always build, they know who I am.

Jesse Sampley (54:42.348)

That brings up, actually brings up a really good point because there is, this is kind of brand perception, you know, and one of my questions for you is, how do people find you today? You know, if it's referrals, if some of it's online, because how you show up is different depending on how people show you or find you. So if someone finds you online, you know, you can make yourself look like a, you know, $50 million business online.

Shane Bogden (55:00.411)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (55:07.085)

well, I've had clients, honestly, they go, you know, after we get going, they're like, we thought you had like this big team behind you. I'm like, no, it's me. I'm just saying like, I, and I, and I usually tell them, said, listen, like, I wear a lot of different hats through the day, like all joking aside, I'm either dealing with somebody I get, you know, with a five grade education, then I'm off to my lawyers, then my accounts, then I'm talking to the client, like, you know what I mean? Like you, you have to wear different hats. I

I tell them like, you know, it's not any different like if you were in the movie business and you're building, you're doing a picture. This is the way that I look at the homes. Like they are art to me. Like, and that's where I sell my, like, I feel like I am an artist. Like we, like I joke with the clients. I spend a year on that home. Well, you, like, you better have your Nikes on cause you're going to have to chase me down for the keys. I'm getting old. You probably catch me before the end of the driveway, but before you couldn't catch me. now like,

I love what I do, but man, it's just, it is a hard sell. Like I'm not gonna lie to you. I look at other people that don't have that emotional content. because I'm micromanage, I'm involved in everything. And back in the day, I'm not lying, I'd be driving, wife's beside me and we're in the truck. And like I said, I should be on a podcast full time. I can tell you a million stories, but I met this couple and...

I don't know, maybe we were in the ground already where we were digging, but they lived in another town and then they were kind of going back and forth and moving. And I'm driving and my client calls me and she's on speaker phone and she's like, hi Shane. She goes, what are you doing? I'm like, no, no, I'm just, you know, just left your house. got some air in, so my wife was in the truck and she's like, you know, like me and my daughter, we're just flying in. We're just wondering if you could pick us up from the airport. And like my wife looks at me and I'm like.

Jesse Sampley (56:58.435)

Bye.

Shane Bogden (57:01.095)

I'm thinking she's probably thinking I'm having an affair or something and I'm like, well, the hell? I go, what in my head? I'm like, who asked their builder to go pick them up at the airport? And I'm like, oh my God, something's going wrong here. So like, I'm like, no, unfortunately, you know, there's some there's some boundaries here. got to keep I can't be picking you up from the airport. I'm sorry.

Jesse Sampley (57:18.358)

Yeah!

But that's testament to the relationship that you're building with these people though, is that this is, you you are definitely more than a builder as erroneous as that scenario is, but still it's the, you know, look how strong of relationship you're building with these people to where, you know, you're part of the family. You know, they probably called two other family members and then, you know, you're the next person on that call. It's actually kind of cool, you know, like I said, as funny as it is, but it's actually like, that's how it's about you.

Shane Bogden (57:25.083)

True. True.

Shane Bogden (57:30.043)

I'm a fool.

Shane Bogden (57:39.292)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (57:46.823)

Yeah, it is. you know, and I like I said, they they know, I think I meant to get to this point where I always tell my clients like, yes, I talk a lot. There's a you know, I don't blame you the trust. You know, you're handing over the biggest increment of money in your lifetime, no matter what, or it doesn't matter what level we're building at, you still should have that for me as a builder, you still should take that pride in whatever level you're at. But

I tell them like there's a certain point in the home and usually it's after rough and stage like after we get the electrical and mechanical and plumbing done and you know we're ready for drywall insulation and stuff and I feel that that's given enough time that they're like okay yeah I get it I get what he's telling me he's told me the truth like he's truthful right from this get go you know and I'm getting better like I said I think there was there was some there was times like I said that you know

where you're, it's exhausting where again, some clients, back when you're trying to explain to them, like, this is a lot of work for you, like as a client, like this is not easy. I know this isn't easy, but now with the technology, like if it's a husband and wife, it's like a three-way text. We update, like I update personally every week what we're gonna accomplish that week, you know, and I don't specifically give them the dates because you know, that works, guys don't just go up and then again, they're down that how many times like, hey,

Jesse Sampley (59:10.124)

Hahaha!

Shane Bogden (59:13.861)

We showed up and Johnny's not there and I'm like, Johnny said he was going to be there. You know, I thought that I learned my lesson because then I'd get those calls, but I give them the updates and then I also give them the lead time. Like, Hey, we're, know, the next week you got to pick this, this and that. So I, you know, I'd love like now with this AI and everything else is going on, you know, I probably gonna probably move forward to trying to get some of that more.

Jesse Sampley (59:18.06)

You

Shane Bogden (59:43.039)

technical ability where I can maybe if I do expand like I believe I will be expanding in the next few years I don't know like sales trump everything but again like we were just saying if we don't if I don't get the right people in front of me you know my audience is like it's dead like back with how you find when you're asking me about the sales I've gone through like with co like I've had the show home so show homes give off a little success but not

Not at the custom level that you would think the cookie cutter, you know You've been in cookie cutter homes where they'll have five or six different floor plans and they got the Yeah, but they'll have the place here. Well, this is a hundred and sixty nine thousand and then this is you know, I mean they got it all or whatever level your guys are at I can't do that for a custom. So they walk in and here's the joke, you know, this is a good one. I i'll sit in my own show homes and you know, you open up on a Saturday and

Jesse Sampley (01:00:18.146)

Florida, yeah, this is the capital of cookie cutter homes.

Shane Bogden (01:00:38.983)

A tribe comes in and the first thing they do, you know, they beeline for the fridge. They go to the kitchen, open up the fridge. I'm like, what the hell? Like go to Home Depot or wherever you gotta go to look appliances. Like you came to a show home to look, that's the first thing they look at. like, it was so disheartening when you have show homes because at my level, because A, I don't care if you don't like the design or the house or you know, the product, look for the quality, look for the finishing. That's when I'm trying to educate people like,

When somebody asks me, like I ask, this is a question that I always ask clients most of the time. said, you know, Jesse, what's, well I'll ask you, what's the most important room of the house that you would know that that's a good built house, that that's a good builder? Like what, what, what room would you go to first? Just to say like, if you're a preexisting home that you're going to apply.

Jesse Sampley (01:01:28.034)

Well, I would go to the master.

Shane Bogden (01:01:30.563)

Okay, why is that?

Jesse Sampley (01:01:32.302)

because that's where my wife's gonna spend the most time, in the bathroom.

Shane Bogden (01:01:36.499)

But would that really indicate that that was a good builder?

Jesse Sampley (01:01:40.033)

A good, well, no, I'll take a line from my dad, which is go to the closet. Go to the least important room. Go to the boiler room. Go to the utilities room. Go to the least important as far as a home goes. Go to the least important row and look at the furthest back corner and look at the shoe mold. Look how close the margins are on the trim. Look at the least important piece and look at the quality there.

Shane Bogden (01:01:48.569)

Great. We can't lose.

to a class next year.

Shane Bogden (01:02:04.667)

Well, I'll back it up. A mechanical room is the most important. I wouldn't say that's the least important, but that's where you're gonna know if a builder, if you went into a mechanical room, like we call them mechanical rooms, so your hot water tank, your furnace and your boiler and HRV system, air conditioning, like whatever, anything that comes in there. If it doesn't look least neat and marked, like you see your gas lines, okay, that was a barbecue, that's coming, you know, they're all.

Like, my utility rooms are second to none. Like, we put checkerboard out. I could do better, don't get me wrong. I've seen other builders, some of them were really, really nice. I mean, that's something that I really try to emphasize. Because I think in 10 years or 15 years, when a guy's gotta go down there to work on a furnace, you gotta have some room in there, right? Like, I've had clients that I've fought with because they're like, well, that's not where the square footage is in. We want it in the house. I'm like.

Yeah, but we gotta have room to think in here, right? now when I do mechanical rooms, for sure, I push 100 % to make them above and beyond adequate. But for somebody looking for an existing home, like a used home, or one that's on the market that was just finished, quote, self-built, maybe not even a builder, that's the room you need to go look at. if it's clean and it looks, even though the client doesn't even know what they're looking at, but it's

It looks like it was presented well in there. It's not dirty. Things are marked. Things are nicely neat. know, electrical lines are coming down and it looks like there was some effort in here. Well, that means the rest of the home chances are they had good trades that cared about it. But you know, I, you just Google bad utility rooms, right? Like it's like, the hell? And then that just shows that that, goes back to our initial cost plus or flat feet where the builders aren't on site.

The trades are running the jobs and they don't get that. They don't get that. So.

Jesse Sampley (01:03:57.069)

Yeah, yeah, have to, and it sounds like you have engineered a way to guarantee quality.

Shane Bogden (01:04:05.56)

Well, the only way is I think you have to be there like you have like I enjoy that I'd rather be out on the site once or twice like, know If I had two homes going I'm out there pretty much every day Like I'm popping my head in and I want to talk like I I know all the guys right like that It's a team like we you know bullshit or whatever you want to call it mean, yeah, we're probably not the most professional group a lot Like I probably should have a video camera on me 24-7. I probably make more money doing that but but no

Jesse Sampley (01:04:32.75)

Start your reality show.

Shane Bogden (01:04:34.469)

Yeah, but I mean it's but again back with with allowing the client like a We have new home warranty and then course of construction insurance is what we call it up here Probably the same thing down there Real realistically like even the cookie cutter homes and stuff. They will not allow clients on there on the site They might give them to site visits with their superintendent. I know a lot of builders in Edmonton like at my level They do the same thing. They'll be like you can only come on site when we're there

I still allow my clients. just tell them like, listen, if you have small children, you're not allowed. I am still, it's under my umbrella. Like it's not, I shouldn't be allowing this. You know, like you guys come in after hours and looking, I have nothing to hide. So that's why I'm trying to explain to them. Like you can come anytime. You can talk to anybody in my trades. They all are friendly. Nobody, nobody alienates you. This is your home, right? Like if somebody did, they're gone. Like if they, they were ignorant or something, then they wouldn't be working for me. But.

I do really, probably moving forward, have to kind of, I'm trying to kind of narrow that down a little more where it's, mean, if something ever happened, you know, it's not good, you know, like, so.

Jesse Sampley (01:05:41.9)

Yeah. Well, Shane, as we're wrapping up here, tell me a little bit about the future and your vision for bringing your kids into the company and making that transition.

Shane Bogden (01:05:53.127)

I like I like I believe like anybody probably with any common sense or Obviously, they're more successful than I am. I think Trump Sales trump everything not trump the president just trumped and They know they trump everything right if you have the sales in front of you, but that's where you know when I'm speaking to most of my clients that you know That's not what drives me

Jesse Sampley (01:06:06.666)

You

Shane Bogden (01:06:21.383)

because it's kind of the legacy of the home. Maybe I'll never get there. Maybe I won't, but maybe my kids will. I don't know. Because like I said, you have to be aggressive in this industry for sure. I'm not really interested in taking any partners on. I never have. I never had any angel investors. So for me, I want to get to a point where hopefully my name is synonymous with the luxury and quality brand. And we don't deviate from that. And we're very, you know,

I would love to be, know, to honestly tell you, I wish I was five or 10%, 15 % higher knowing what I do. Like how could, why should I be comparable to this guy where he does a half ass job and he, I try with my clients, the guys that chase the bottom, their margins are probably better than mine because they chase, they don't pay, you know, like it's, it's a really weird atmosphere around here lately and that this, don't know, hopefully it'll change. I don't know. But I keep.

putting up a good fight, again, it falls on deaf ears. It really does. And I know that I probably, for me, I just want to continue to build good, I want to have great clients and build great homes. again, I'll joke inside, I hope that I get these clients eventually that see the value and just believe right off the bat. And I think in the past, there has been clients, or sorry, home builders in Edmonton that had that.

luxury of, you know, that client just, I want him, put me on the waiting list. But now that everybody's a poser out there, it's just so crazy. you know what I mean? Like the level, the quality of the pricing is all over mapping everywhere. And that's where I don't know. I don't know if we're going to get it back or not. That's what I'm, I'm kind of concerned with, but I can only build one home at a time. can only, you know, unfortunately, uh, what you were saying earlier, you know, where are people

come to find me. I tried all the home shows, I've tried a lot of advertising, I've got nothing. Like radio, TV, straight up just nothing. Nothing. I get people that'll come by through a neighborhood and they see a home, they actually talk to the homeowner and then they find out that I built. Or it's a reference, know, or like I said, if I had the show home, yes, I get the odd custom built.

Jesse Sampley (01:08:28.419)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (01:08:44.295)

Off the show homes, but I don't know if the reward is right now We're really having a trouble in Edmonton where we don't have the estate lots anymore Like everybody's building small or small like we believe it or not. We have 22 foot pockets up here 22 foot pockets like so that means you can only go 18 feet wide For a home. It's ridiculous and we have all the land like you know, you were saying Canada like I didn't know we were running out of land like whoa Where's the memo? This was like 10 years ago. I used to say that like it's somebody what happened like so

Jesse Sampley (01:09:01.934)

I'm choking on this.

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (01:09:13.368)

Well, I would say on a marketing side, this is what I'm seeing that's working well for people. this is when it's a softer market, it becomes even more crucial, right? Because everyone's kind of competing for a lot of the same people. And it's a really good website that is not just a brochure.

It's a website like, if I'm going to your website, I'm able to take the next step. I'm able to download a guide. You'll notice on our own site, like you can download a guide. There's multiple ways that you can engage with that. Even if it's like, hey, let's see if we're a good fit. Download our builder guide to see if like, you know, if we're the right person for you.

And that captures a lead. If it's a, it's a contact form that has your criteria that says like, Hey, I need to know your budget. need to know when you're ready to build. need to know if you have a lot, like just to qualify the people that you do have. the website.

Shane Bogden (01:10:08.091)

But we, but I've done that just the problem is that's where I'm talking about the lower evaluation, the lower number. I, we were doing that. I was getting a lot of leads, but these were not homes that like, can't, you know, I can't compete with the cookie cutter and they can't compete with me. That's the way it was. But people, if you want on my website, like one of my, any of my homes and they're like, like our value, like here in Canada is probably a lot different price point, you know, like.

Jesse Sampley (01:10:16.236)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (01:10:37.735)

The numbers are probably a lot, maybe a lot higher up here compared to what you're thinking. Dollar, just because our dollar is so off. But anyway, let's just use a million dollars. The houses that I'm building are on average 1.5 and up. And minimum, like I don't, I can't remember the last one, 1.5. But anyway, somewhere around there, plus lot, where people call and they think, whoa, is that a six or $700,000 home? And I'm like, no, like, no, Like I don't even build, I can't even build at that level. There's no margin in for me, so.

I can't do it. Unfortunately.

Jesse Sampley (01:11:09.153)

And this is

And this is where the, everyone's trying to compete for the same thing, which is where do my customers live and how can I get in front of those people? And, you know, I don't know if you have a Google business profile, but a Google business profile, the website, that's kind of your organic, like, Hey, the people, they're, if they're searching for, and that's another thing is, you know, also the people that are searching for what I have to offer. Am I given that information to those people? You know, if it's like a luxury builders.

Shane Bogden (01:11:19.804)

Great.

Shane Bogden (01:11:26.086)

I do.

Jesse Sampley (01:11:39.969)

yeah there's a lot of people searching for that in my area okay well we should do things that on the website that have to do with what people are actually searching for but then we have also seen that using using Facebook ads for people who have visited the website

just to constantly be in front of these people and to try to narrow those people down because it's not like a trade where it's like, hey, I need a plumber. I'm going to Google the first person. And then I call immediately. If someone's really shopping for a luxury home, it's like they're doing some research. that sell cycle is so long that it's like, OK, well, if I've reached out to, or not even reached out, I'm just shopping.

Shane Bogden (01:12:17.425)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (01:12:22.38)

You know, I'm looking at here's all the builders. Okay. I've got my selection of seven, eight, nine different people.

And then like what happens after that? You know, where's the nurture to say like, Hey, this is why, you know, we think we'd be a great fit for you. You know, it's kind of crafting that whole storyline to say, Hey, it may take nine or 10 months, but like over time, all of this starts, catch starts catching up to where people are really familiar with. This is the type of home that we build. This is the type of person we don't really work well with. This is the person we do work well with. You know, here's the testimonials. You kind of start layering all of this stuff.

to where people...

when they do start doing the research, it's like, man, I know instantly that this person's for me or this person is not for me. and it's not just the photos that are selling it, but it's more of, you know, I've seen that you've even done some stuff on, Instagram. And it's like, man, you're, starting to see your personality, you know, things like this podcast. Like I know, you know, I can, I've got enough information online to consume so that I'm really prepared when I actually do have the first meeting with Shane. And then once he starts.

me homes and he starts telling me about you know how he builds it all kind of starts coming together rather than man I don't know you at all and I don't have any info to get go off of other than like the homes that you've done but you know now you're just kind of left with me and I've got to tell you my life story I've got to tell you what's important to me I've got it's too much

Shane Bogden (01:13:44.871)

you

Shane Bogden (01:13:49.763)

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I just want my daughter keeps telling me like, got to get in front of the camera and blah, blah, blah. Right. I'm like, yeah, if I was 15 years ago, I've been all over it, like a fat kid on a smarty or permanent loop. But I now I'm like, Jesus, like, I don't get better. I've good filters on.

Jesse Sampley (01:14:01.677)

Hahaha!

Jesse Sampley (01:14:08.558)

No, man. Well, you did good. Well, I really love this conversation. I'm really looking forward to following along with what you guys do. Keep posting on social. the website updated and all of that.

As you'll, and I'm sure you've already seen, you know, the, the, the buyers and the entrepreneurs that are out there, they're able to afford these homes. they, people are just, the numbers don't lie. People are, are on, they're online, you know, and they're really searching for proof to see like, Hey, who is, who's the people that I'm, that I'm going to work with. And that's our, that's our best representation, you know, which is why Facebook and Instagram and Google and all these people are doing the same thing, which is, Hey, you, you can only get back.

Shane Bogden (01:14:45.435)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (01:14:53.232)

as much as you put in. So put yourself forward, give us the, you put your best foot forward as far as, you know, how you're presenting yourself online, look professional, but also show your personality too so that it's not a stark difference of, man, I thought it was this person when they were online. And then when I went and had a conversation with them, like, is this even the same company?

Shane Bogden (01:15:17.073)

Well, yeah, no, I agree with you. Like I said, it's like just backtrack. Like I was telling you, I feel like I know the consistency you have to stay on. Like my daughter continues to tell me that too. And then again, I'm low volume. So it's like, I got one host going. How much can I talk about one house? And so it's kind of, get that.

Jesse Sampley (01:15:40.235)

Another builder gave me some really good advice. He said if you focus on the very micros of something, he said, I'm talking about the type of screw that you're putting into a window. Like if you go to the very tiniest, tiniest part, he said, you'll have all of the info that you need to talk about. Because if you know, even if you're taking a year, just thinking about all of...

Shane Bogden (01:15:58.023)

Bro.

Jesse Sampley (01:16:02.263)

Talk about the margins on the trim. You're talking about the certain type of materials. You're talking about how you're sealing the walkout basement. When you really start looking at the tiny things, there's an unlimited amount of stuff to talk about throughout that entire process. If you're looking at the tiny things, hey, this fiber on this two by four versus this, mean, get crazy with it.

Shane Bogden (01:16:25.799)

Well, no, but it's true. It is 100 % true. yeah, I mean, the information that's out there, there's a lot, but then is it the right stuff too, right? But I mean, my problem, in all honesty, I know my own problem is I gotta get, you know, get ahead of it, I guess, or get out of my own way. You know what mean? They always say the same sort of scenario, but like I was telling you, I wear so many different hats through the day, and you're right.

Jesse Sampley (01:16:36.225)

and

Jesse Sampley (01:16:48.205)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (01:16:55.375)

It gets to you a lot in the sense even and again that's that's being in business. That's anybody in life, right? Like it's my responsibility at the end of the day so

Jesse Sampley (01:17:04.992)

Yeah, I think that's where the blocking comes to say, okay, if I'm going to do, if I'm going to do some content, you know, can I just, can I give myself an hour? Can I have my son or daughter, you know, film me for an hour and I'm going to go ahead and, you know, talk about these topics or kind of block it all together so that it's not like you're always trying to play catch up. That's what I try to do is, Hey, I'm not going to do this every single day. I'm going to do this once every two weeks, and then I'm going to schedule it out for the next couple of months.

Shane Bogden (01:17:25.413)

Yeah, true. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (01:17:34.896)

I'm done. You know, I'm only having to think about this twice a month instead of, man, I should have done that yesterday. And here I'll just quickly do it right now. And you're always kind of filling up like you're playing catch up amongst all the other things you have to do, not just on a business side, but then you've got your family and all of those other things. It's.

Shane Bogden (01:17:51.043)

Well, you know, one thing that you know, that just kind of dawned on me, what you just said too, you know, in a company, back when I was, from the beginning, when I was trying to tell you how that guy, know, leaned at me and big and beautiful, blah, blah. My also, my mentality was, soon as the kids got to a certain age, you know, we went full, I have three full-time athletes, right? So we were going, you know, like any other household, you're...

going in 15 directions if they play sports or music or what have you, right? But I wanted to be that dad that would be there everywhere. And I was. I didn't miss a practice, didn't I? Did Katie at home suffer? Yeah. I want to say I probably would have been for those 10 years of running around. And it cost a lot of money. I mean, I'm not going to lie about that. To be able to do that, I have no regrets because I got to see a lot and was part of that. But that was my choice.

The other saying that I always knew it was, you know, in the past, back to my kids, if they continue to stay with us, it's, know, Katie is not here to nurture us, we're here to nurture it. So we kind of continue to make sure it's taken care of. But back, you know, that's where I get really frustrated in the last five years. I want to say I'm doing more complicated homes. And if I looked at the 10 years prior,

They weren't as, you know, we didn't, the Pinterest wasn't out. We weren't doing all these crazy ceiling and all this other stuff. I would honestly say a dollar to dollar, my margins have come down. And I don't, you know, I'm having a tough time understanding that to myself. And I'm, am I doing it myself? I don't know. Like I'm, maybe I am, because I keep thinking, well, I gotta help these people out. And I'm like, wait a minute, they're probably multimillionaires. What if I help them out for you? It's a weird, yeah, like there's something odd about that.

Jesse Sampley (01:19:24.526)

Hey, y'all.

Jesse Sampley (01:19:37.505)

you

Shane Bogden (01:19:42.885)

You know, I think there's obviously people that are in business that are great businessmen and then there's great builders that are just builders. yeah.

Jesse Sampley (01:19:50.991)

Like you said, you're an artist, know, and that's always been the, you know, the starving artists and the business man. You know, that's a tale as old as time, but you know, you, kind of have to wear that's a, again, another hat you probably need to wear, you know, which is like, man, I've got to balance this because I am truly creating an art piece.

Shane Bogden (01:19:56.231)

You're being...

Shane Bogden (01:20:02.139)

Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (01:20:07.726)

but there's a business side to it too. And I don't think there's any right answer, but it is just the reality is that you are both in the same and you're a top communicator and you're having to communicate all of this to the client.

Shane Bogden (01:20:10.705)

Yeah, it worked.

Shane Bogden (01:20:18.383)

Yeah. Well, I'll get, I know we've got to leave, but I'll give you one other example to make you laugh. So, you know, you, you, get into a home and like I told you, you got these allowances and some in the past, it used to always be industry standard was cost plus 15. So if you went over on your cabinetry, 10 grand, I'm charging you 15%, $1,500. Okay. What, much does that 1500 go into my pocket? Right.

really after taxes, everything like two grand, And they're not thinking about all the stuff that I've lost, like all the extra concrete I've poured over here. Like I tried to tell them off to start. It's a give and take situation. On $100,000 cost plus 15, I make 15 grand. Put it in that perspective. 2,500 goes in my pocket, but most of time that's covering some expense that I've already overdue on where I protected you on the left hand side. So kind of.

helps me a little balance, know, balance. So then you get clients like, for example, a couple of weeks ago, we got, he went off and got another designer and they were doing these elaborate, not elaborate, but a lot of Wayne's concept, a lot of trim work. Like I'm talking a lot, pretty, pretty nice stuff. but I mean, like a picture frame and a picture frame and on a 20 foot wall, you got, you know, you got scaffolding, you're going up there, you know, as a finisher, you're going to go up there.

Jesse Sampley (01:21:35.679)

good.

Shane Bogden (01:21:40.259)

hundred friggin trips to do it you got lasers and then so I'm telling the client I said listen you know I don't even know how to price this or whatever I talked to my finisher I said like why don't we just you know he said you know looking at some of this stuff in the designer sure that might only cost a couple hundred bucks that could take 300 that other wall maybe 600 but that big wall might be 2,500 bucks in labor I don't know why don't we you know give me an opportunity we'll do a wall and so I told him I said you got Derek my finishers labor

you got the finishing product, then you got my painter, Keith's gotta come in and tape, know, if you want a different color of trim, you know, casing baseboard or whatever, but with these elaborate trims, you might want it as different than the wall color. And then I said, then I'll mark it and just me marking up my cost plus 15. What, why are you marking it? That's what they said to me I'm like going, ugh, like what do you mean? Like I don't even, should I really have to explain myself?

You know, you're in the restaurant business. Do you Thursday you just give food out for free? Like, I mean, I don't understand the analogy. Like, I really don't. It just kind of really dawns on me that people think that way and they like back with a flat fee or whatever the or they're in their mind. They're cycling like, you know, you're you're making all this money and then you should, you know, nothing else should be above and beyond. Well, you're forgetting that's going to be an extra month of labor and time.

Jesse Sampley (01:22:43.022)

I'm

Shane Bogden (01:23:08.177)

So I got utilities to pay for, I got course of construction to pay for, I probably have another bin, great garbage. I have to supervise obviously, and then I got to clean, right? like that, let's just say that was a $20,000 on finishing and I made three grand. That doesn't even cover the expense of what I just did for that extra month of time. It's just weird. I swear to God, it's only in our industry that.

Jesse Sampley (01:23:26.702)

Yeah.

But you do have to, you do have to explain that. And you know, and you got to think too that, know, okay, maybe the people that are building with you have built one or two homes. You're building hundreds over your lifetime. You know, this is for them, this is not that new or I'm sorry for them. This is brand new for you. You know, you're, you're stacking up all of the years experience. mean, like, how is this not the most crystal clear thing?

Shane Bogden (01:23:35.398)

Yeah.

Shane Bogden (01:23:45.51)

Yeah.

I'm glad you're

Shane Bogden (01:23:57.55)

I just I said I I just don't get my people's mindsets on that like you know where they think that you know that's what we were talking about back with this cost-plus thing it would just be such a headache because I think they would get to a certain point with a multi-million dollar house and then you're like well we paid this guy 150 grand already and you know what I mean and then the fights on like again do you go to Ford and go like what's your profit?

That's too much. I'm not paying for that. You make too much money on that truck. I need that truck, but I don't want to pay you for it.

Jesse Sampley (01:24:29.312)

Yeah. Well, Shane, let's wrap up. Tell people how they can follow along and learn more about you and get in contact with you.

Shane Bogden (01:24:35.623)

Well, you can definitely just my website. It's kadienhomes.ca.

Jesse Sampley (01:24:48.724)

Awesome. And people can go to your website. They can see your portfolio. They can see all the services that you have to offer. They can kind of see the vision behind Kadien You've got a blog and.

Shane Bogden (01:24:51.271)

That's great.

Shane Bogden (01:24:56.411)

Yeah. Yeah, the blogs are really educational. We were just alluding to all that information we talked about today is in there of how we conduct the business, the process, everything. Yeah. thank you. No, appreciate it. Well, thank you for the time and listen to me. All right. Well, you have a great day. Anything else?

Jesse Sampley (01:25:08.814)

Amazing. Amazing. Well, Shane, thank you so much. Like I said, we're looking forward to following along with you.

Jesse Sampley (01:25:19.608)

Of course.

Alright Shane, hang on one second. So I'm going to stop recording.

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Why Quality Over Volume Matters in Luxury Home Building

From Construction Experience to Custom Home Building

The Advice That Changed How Shane Thought About Growth

Why Quality Over Volume Matters

Choosing the Right Custom Home Client

The Custom Home Is a Partnership

Why Price Per Square Foot Does Not Tell the Whole Story

Understanding Shane's Hybrid Contract Model

Key Takeaways

Listen to the Full Episode

Why does Shane Bogden keep his business low volume?

Why does Shane keep many of the same trades and suppliers?

How does Shane qualify potential custom home clients?

Why does Shane believe quality matters more than the lowest price?

Why does Shane view a custom home as a partnership?

How does Shane attract new custom home clients?

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