What Separates Great Builders From Average Builders

By focusing on quality craftsmanship, clear communication, and a personalized client experience.

A positive experience helps homeowners feel informed, confident, and engaged throughout the process.

By paying close attention to details and working with trusted trade partners.

Clear communication helps avoid misunderstandings and keeps projects moving forward smoothly.

Managing client expectations, coordinating trades, and adapting to changing market conditions.

Focus on doing quality work, serving clients well, and building a reputation that lasts.

Jesse Sampley (00:01.613)

Yeah. Well Paul, welcome to the Meridian Pursuit Builders Podcast. Super excited to have you on here. If you would give us, you know, for those listening and and those watching on YouTube, give us a little bit of the background, how you got started in the building industry and just a good synopsis of what the company looks like today.

Paul (00:19.894)

All right. Well, I appreciate it. And thank you for having us on. I love doing stuff like this and sharing our story and trying to learn more about others. Again, our company's Paul Gray Homes, and we're in Wichita, Kansas. We're a custom home builder. We will be 19 years in August, like which is tomorrow. So we're we're coming right around the corner. but I started building a long, long time ago. My dad is a builder. He's retired in the last few years, but I grew up working for my father.

Jesse Sampley (00:21.156)

Well I appreciate it. Thank you for having us on. I love doing stuff like this and sharing our story and trying to learn more about others. Again, our company's Paul Great Homes and we're in Wichita, Kansas. We are a custom home builder. We will be 19 years in August, which is tomorrow. Congratulations. I started building a long, long time ago. My dad is a builder, he's retired in the last few years, but I grew up working for my father.

Paul (00:49.932)

I'm the oldest of four boys. So as a little kid, you know, dad's like, I need you to go mow the yards at the models or water the lawns. I'm like 11, 12 years old. And it I mean, back then we didn't have TVs, we didn't have anything. So you just sit there in a model on a on a Tuesday afternoon in the summertime, bored out of your mind, like nothing to do. Or mowing yards. And and growing up in that environment when, you know, when 15, 16, actually can do work.

Jesse Sampley (00:50.603)

I'm the oldest of four boys. So as a little kid, you know, dad's like, I need you to go mow the yards with the models or water the lawns. I'm like eleven, twelve years old. And back then we didn't have TVs, they didn't have anything. So you just sit there and a model on a on a Tuesday afternoon in the summertime, bored out of your mind, like nothing to do. We're mowing yards. And and growing up in that environment when, you know, when fifteen, sixteen actually can do work.

Paul (01:18.964)

Spring break, all summer long, I'm doing it. And I was not loving it because you take this kid that goes to school who doesn't have any passion for construction because he's just a kid. He wants to be outside playing with his friends and playing video games. And then you go stick him outside when it's 90, 100 degrees out and say, go pick up trash for 40 hours a week. It was awful and miserable and I hated every bit of it. But then, you know, graduate high school. I'm 18 years old. I start working on the framing crew.

Jesse Sampley (01:19.615)

spring break, all summer long I'm doing it. And I was not loving because you take this kid that goes to school who doesn't have any passion for construction because he's just a kid wants to be outside playing his friends and playing video games. And then you go stick him outside when it's 90 hundred degrees out and say go pick up trash for 40 hours. It was awful and miserable and I hated every bit of it. But then you know graduate high school, I'm 18 years old. I start working on the framing crew.

Paul (01:48.014)

our lead framer leaves to go out and becomes his own subcontractor. And so all of a sudden, me with no experience, along with my cousin Zane, we both graduated at the same time. Dad goes, All right, you guys are gonna run the framing crew. And whichever one of you excels as the leader will be the the crew heat crew lead. So my dad sat there over the course of about a month teaching us how to frame. And we were a production. My dad was a a big builder in the eighties and nineties and early two thousands. We'd

Jesse Sampley (01:48.674)

our lead framer leaves to go out and becomes his own subcontractor. And so all of a sudden, me with no experience, along with my cousin Zane, we both graduated at the same time. Dad goes, All right, you guys gonna run the framing crew. And whichever one of you excels as the leader will be the the crew heat crew lead. So my dad sat there over the course of about a month teaching us how to frame. And we are production. My dad was a builder in the eighties and nineties and early two thousands. We

Paul (02:17.73)

Build 150, 200 homes a year. And back then, that was the self-performance days before everything went completely to subcontractors. So I was a framer, trim carpenter, painter. And by the time I was 19, 20 years old, I actually liked doing it. Somehow I found love in this job that it was the last thing I ever wanted to do. And I was going to school full time. And at about 20, I decided to stop going to school, focus on building.

Jesse Sampley (02:18.367)

Built 150, 200 homes a year. Then back then that was the self-performance days before everything went completely to subcontractors. So I was a framer, trim carpenter, painter. And by the time I was 19, 20 years old, I actually liked doing. Somehow I found love in this job that was the last thing I ever wanted to do. And I was going to school full time. And at about 20, I decided to stop going to school, focus on building.

Paul (02:46.22)

Built my own home for myself at twenty-one. So economically, this is very gratifying and I'm enjoying it. But it's funny because, you know, people were like, your parents encourage you. No, my parents did not encourage me. My dad told me and my brothers growing up, construction sucks. Don't be a builder. Go be a doctor. So me being the oldest of four boys, don't do what your parents say. And all three of my brothers are doctors. So so you could tell that they paid attention and listened. And I should have listened to my parents more, but

Jesse Sampley (02:46.891)

Built my own home for myself at 21. So economically this is very gratifying and I'm enjoying it. Yeah. But it's funny because you know, people are like, your parents encouraged you. No, my parents did not encourage me. My dad told me and my brothers going up, construction sucks. Don't be a builder. Go be a doctor. So me, being the oldest of four boys, don't do what your parents say. And all three of my brothers are doctors. So you can tell that they paid attention and listened, and I should have listened to my parents more, but

Paul (03:16.278)

I grew to love this business. And even to this day, people were like, what does retirement look like for you? I'm like, the same thing. Maybe I just work less hours. Like, I don't ever see a point in time where I stopped doing construction. So fast forward my early 20s, I'm working for my parents. And then I decided to get into politics. And so in my mid-20s, I was 25, I started running for Wichita City Council and Wichita's largest state in Kansas or largest city in the state of Kansas with 350,000 people, give or take.

Jesse Sampley (03:16.968)

I grew to love this business. And even even to this day, people were like, what does retirement look like for you? I'm like, the same thing. Maybe I just work less hours. Like, I don't ever see a point in time where I stopped doing construction. So fast forward my early 20s, I'm working for my parents, and then I decided to get into politics. And so in my mid-20s, I was 25, I started running for Wichita City Council and Wichita's largest state in Kansas, or largest city in the state of Kansas with 350,000 people give or take.

Paul (03:46.348)

And so I got elected on the city council, one of six districts. I served for eight years. I became the vice mayor one year. I really enjoyed it. And it was gratifying because, like, you know, when I was younger and wanted to do it, it was for selfish reasons. But once I really started to understand the job, I wanted to do great things for my community because you know, those three brothers who are doctors, none of them live in Wichita. And I'm the young guy, the youngest person on the council next to me, I think, was in their 50s, all the way up to their 80s.

Jesse Sampley (03:47.016)

And so I got elected on the city council, one of six districts. I served for eight years. I became the vice mayor one year. I really enjoyed it. And it was gratifying because like, you know, when I was younger and wanted to do it, it was for selfish reasons. But once I really started to understand the job, I wanted to do great things for my community because you know, those three brothers who are doctors, then I'm living Wichita. And I'm the young guy, the youngest person on the council next to me, I think was in their fifties, all the way up to their eighties.

Paul (04:16.183)

So I brought a perspective to local government that was one of youth and entrepreneurship, business development, and real real estate. And I want to do everything I could to make sure the community was such that my peers and my kids don't leave Wichitar, at least most of them stay. And I think we added value to our community in doing that. But halfway through my year of years of being a council member, I decided

Jesse Sampley (04:16.819)

So I brought a perspective to local government. There was one of youth and entrepreneurship, business development, and real real estate. And I want to do everything I could to make sure the community was such that my peers and my kids don't be watched hard. At least most of them stay. And I think we added value to our community in doing that. But halfway through my year of years of being a council member, I decided

Paul (04:44.257)

To open my own company at the age of 30. My parents were very supportive. So even though they, you know, enjoyed me working with them, I had an important role at the time. They understood that they raised me to be independent. And so to this day, my mom works with me. She helps with sales and marketing and website stuff. And my father worked his last couple of years with me before he retired, finishing out a couple of big multifamily projects we had.

Jesse Sampley (04:45.202)

to open my own company at the age of 30. My parents were very supportive. So even though they, you know, enjoyed me working with them, I had an important role at the time, they understood that they raised me to be independent. And so to this day, my mom works with me. She helps with sales and marketing and and website stuff. And my father worked his last couple of years with me before he retired.

finishing out a couple of big multifamily projects we had wow. So at what time did did your dad kinda start winding down the production side of things and then you you you took off

Paul (05:21.769)

I started basically in 07, 08. And great time to become a home builder, you know, right before the housing crash. So he he went off and did some some work out of town building some base housing at one of the military bases near us. And when he came back, that was about the time I thought I wanted to go start my own thing because the economy was was slow, housing was tough.

Jesse Sampley (05:22.649)

I started basically in seven, eight. Okay. And great time to become a home builder. You know, I could be building the housing. So he he went off and did some some work out of town building some base housing at one of the military bases near us. And when he came back, that was about the time I thought I wanted to go start my own thing because the economy was was slow, housing was tough.

Paul (05:50.518)

And and to some extent I also saw myself as a burden because my parents' production capacity went down, just like everybody else's in the business. So I figured I'd go start this because I also had a salary that I was earning in politics. It wasn't a lot, but it was enough to cover the mortgage and pay the utilities and feed my kid. And so I went down that path and and gave it a shot. And I think our first year we built one home. And the next year, two, three.

Jesse Sampley (05:51.428)

And and to some extent also saw myself as as a burden because my parents' production capacity went down just like everybody else's in the business. So I figured I'd go start this because I also had a salary that I was earning in politics. It wasn't a lot, but it was enough to cover the mortgage and paying utilities and feed my kid. And so I went down that path and and gave it a shot. And I think our first year we built one home. Yeah. And next year, two, three.

Paul (06:18.881)

But in the meantime, I had also liked commercial construction. And through the through the the people I had met being in politics, I wanted to diversify into commercial construction. I wanted to diversify into real estate and real estate investment and development over time. So I went out and I started growing a commercial company. So we also have a commercial construction company. We build restaurants, medical, office, retail space, multifamily. So we're, we're diversified. That was one of the things that.

Jesse Sampley (06:19.76)

But in the meantime, I had also like commercial construction. And through the through the the people I had met being in politics, I wanted to diversify into commercial construction. I wanted to diversify into real estate, real estate investment, and development over time. So I went out and I started growing a commercial company. So we also have a commercial construction company. We build restaurants, medical office, really, multifamily. So we're we're diversified. That was one of the things that

Paul (06:47.977)

I saw a lot of builders struggle with because growing up in this business in a community like which saw all the builders know each other. We're all friends or acquaintances building neighborhoods side by side. Some of us are even partners. And I saw a lack of you know, I saw a lack of let's put it this way. I saw a lot of people all their eggs in one basket. You know, this builder over here builds in one development. So if there's a disruption in that neighborhood.

Jesse Sampley (06:48.899)

I saw a lot of builders struggle with because growing up in this business and a community, like we saw all the builders know each other. We're all friends or acquaintances building neighborhoods side by side. Some of us are even partners. And I saw a lack of you know, I saw a lack of, you know, let's put it this way. I saw a lot of people all their eggs in one basket. Yeah. This builder over here builds in one development. So if there's a disruption in that neighborhood.

Paul (07:17.461)

It slows that out, slows that neighborhood down and really disrupts them. So I wanted diversity. And that's why I was able that's how I survived growing, starting a company and and the the downturn of eight was I was able to do commercial.

Jesse Sampley (07:18.317)

It slows that out, slows that neighborhood down and really disrupts them. So I wanted diversity. And that's why I was able that's how I survived growing, starting a company and and the the downturn of a way. Who did your did your dad pass down a lot of the the leadership skills needed to you know transition into, you know, I'm I'm working in the business, but you know, now I need to start working on the business. I I'm I'm creating

a a business where I've got a a proper structure, I'm not just the one that's doing the work. Like how did that that's a that's a big gap, you know, of saying, you know, I'm I'm going from, you know, being the framer to, you know, now I'm going to start these new businesses and, you know, how how did that come about? Or, you know, was it just kind of you have a intuition for those kind of things?

Paul (08:07.511)

Man, that you hit the nail on the head. my parents taught me the technical skills. They taught me the nuts and bolts, how do you build it, but they didn't really at that time teach me how to run a business because one, they didn't really need me having those skills because they were doing those skills. So it was it was a lot of work. I mean, I was four years into my council job. So I understood financials, which was a huge help because before that.

Jesse Sampley (08:08.343)

Man, that you hit the nail on the head. my parents taught me the technical skills. They taught me the nuts and bowls, how do you build it, but they didn't really at that time teach me how to run a business because one, they didn't really need me having those skills because they were doing those skills. So it was it was a lot of work. I mean, I was four years into my council job. So I understood financials, which was a huge help because before that I'd never seen a PL statement or

Paul (08:34.977)

I'd never seen a PL statement or a balance sheet in my life. But here I am happening to understand we had a half a billion dollar budget for the city of Wichita, 3,000 employees. So that experience at least gave me some fundamental knowledge that I didn't get otherwise. But when we started the company, my parents were very gracious. My mom helped me understand accounting. She helped me set up my books, taught me how to how to to to read and interpret the data.

Jesse Sampley (08:37.558)

Balance sheet in my life, then here I am happening to understand we had a half a billion dollar budget. wow from the city of Wichita, 3,000 employees. So that experience at least gave me some fundamental knowledge that I didn't get otherwise. But when we started the company, my parents were very gracious. My mom helped me understand accounting. She helped me set up my books, taught me how to how to to to read and interpret the data. They also connected me with their accountant who's

Paul (09:03.649)

They also connected me with their accountant, who's still my accountant all these years later. he's become a great friend of mine. He's actually the trustee on all my trust that I have. That's how much I I I value the relationship with my accountant. But between my mom and my accountant Tom, teaching me the financials and understanding that, and then my dad teaching me, hey, here's all the other things you didn't see when you were out there swinging a hammer and showing me that how to manage design, how to

Jesse Sampley (09:07.178)

Still my accountant all these years later. Good for you. He's become a great friend of mine. He's actually the trustee on all my trust that I have. That's how much I I value the relationship with my accountant. But between my mom and my accountant Tom teaching me the financials and understanding that, and then my dad teaching me, hey, here's all the other things you didn't see when you were out there swinging a hammer and showing me that, how to manage design, how to how to draw and CAD, how to

Paul (09:32.471)

How to draw and CAD, how to establish budgets and estimate. Those are the things my father saw. So the, the, the broad knowledge between both of my parents really helped me kind of come to come to an understanding fairly early on. And when you're only building a couple of homes a year, you've got the time to really learn that. Granted, it was at midnight.

Jesse Sampley (09:35.795)

established budgets and estimate. Those are the things my father saw. So the the the broad knowledge between both of my parents really helped me kind of come to come to a an understanding fairly early on. And when you're only building a couple of homes a year, you've got the time to really learn that. Yeah. Granted it was it. Yeah. That's so funny. I I've got a really similar a background. my dad was a home builder. My mom did all of the books. He was

would only build one or two homes a year. But he I mean as early as on as I could remember we were out there picking up blocks in on the job site and he would he would allow us, me and my brother, to take on some of the subcontractor roles if we wanted and if the if the time allowed because a lot of his projects were spec homes. at that time where I where I grew up, Fort Knox was transitioning from infantrymen over to officers.

so there was kind of during this two thousand eight downfall of of the economy, our county was having kind of a a housing boom just because there wasn't enough of these sixteen hundred to two thousand square foot homes that these officers wanted to buy. So it was like one of the top counties performance wise as far as new builds happening. So he would allow us to come on as as framers and we we went up through almost every single trade position.

unlike you, I mean we hated it kind of along the way. we had some money in our pocket as as teenagers when our our peers and our friends had no money and we're like, we're we're doing fine. But my dad would say the same thing the same thing. He was like, I do I recommend that you have these skills if you need them. but you probably should do something different. And we we kind of went the video production and and marketing route, but

funny as life is, we we came back around and we each built our own homes and I we r invest in in short term rentals and and build properties and invest in properties and it's like just having that knowledge and and knowing a a good foundation of, you know, what different trades should charge and things like that has been extremely valuable. And it's to have a a father like that that really, you know, can teach you things like that, it's it's invaluable.

Jesse Sampley (11:56.776)

The only thing he did not teach was how to run a business, which is the most crucial part of, you know, when you not just having an elaborate job, but having a business to where, you know, you're responsible for other people. You're making sure that you have margins to cover contingencies and and all of those things. That's sometimes you have to learn the hard way.

Paul (12:18.732)

Absolutely. It it it and the the best thing is like I think you asked that question of me, one because that was your experience, but I'm sure it with all these other people you have on your show, you've come across that that that that theme very consistently. And it's like, I don't know if you have kids yet, but I have kids and my twenty one year old's in school, getting a construction draw construction sciences degree. And I'm like

Jesse Sampley (12:19.604)

Absolutely. It i i i i and the the best thing is like I think you asked that question of me, one because that was your experience, but I'm sure with all these other people you have on your show, you come across that that that that theme very consistently. I do. And it's like I don't know if you have kids yet, but I have kids and my twenty one year old's in school, getting construction dra construction sciences degree. And I'm like, if you want to build homes, you don't need to go to college. But if you want to do commercial, because he did it's like I don't want to build big buildings, so they're great.

Paul (12:42.868)

If you want to build homes, you don't need to go to college. But if you want to do commercial, because he did, he's like, I don't want to build big buildings. So I say, great. I want you to go here. We're going to find the school with the best construction sciences program that has great internships. And I want you to go there. And I want you to go work for these companies that will teach you these things that are beyond what I have. But I I can teach you this much, but you go work for these guys and get this education, you're going to start out here. it's such a great base to do that. And then my younger kids were.

Jesse Sampley (12:49.435)

I want you to go here. We're gonna find the school with the best construction sciences program that has great internships. And I want you to go there and I want you to work for these companies that will teach you these things that are beyond what I have. But I I can teach you this much, but you go work for these guys and get this education, you're gonna start out here. it's such a great base than to do that. And then my younger kids, where we've got them helping us during the summertime. Usually I'm taking one kid.

Paul (13:12.224)

We've got them helping us during the summertime. Usually I'm taking one kid to work with me at least one day a week. And I've got three kids at home, 16, 13, and eight. And each of them come to work with me. And, you know, the eight year old he's spending most of the time sitting there reading a book or playing with his iPad. But he's still there in the environment, understands what's going on. Yep. Goes looks at jobs. They they like those. But I make him also sit in client meetings.

Jesse Sampley (13:17.986)

Work with me at least one day a week. And I've got three kids at home, sixteen, thirteen, and eight. Amazing. And each of them come to work with me. And you know, the eight year old he's spending most of the time sitting there reading a book or playing with scipac. But he's still there in the environment. Yeah, it's still around him. I love that. Yeah, we have we have looks at jobs, they they like those. But I make him also sit in client meetings. Yeah, I love that. You know, whether it's a sales or design meeting, like I want you guys to sit here and understand what's going on. I don't care if you're bored, you can be bored, it's okay.

Paul (13:39.904)

You know, whether it's a sales or design meeting, like I want you guys to sit here and understand what's going on. I don't care if you're bored, you can be bored, it's okay.

Jesse Sampley (13:47.706)

Yeah. No, they're they're gleaning a lot more than than you know, I'm sure. we've got four kids. We have our fifth on the way, so we have we have quite the circus at home, which is which is a fun time. Congrats. But yeah, the the same kind of priorities of you know, pass passing down really important fundamentals to the next generation just by being in the room. especially on a sales and marketing side, you know, which is kind of the positioning of how you're

Paul (13:57.11)

Congrats.

Jesse Sampley (14:13.541)

Positioning yourself, how you're communicating like what you offer to people, rather than just the work. because if you just are focusing on the work, you don't really have a great understanding of the whole economy, you know, of the business and and why you're making the decisions that you make. I'm I'm curious, you know, you being I'm sure there's a lot of other home builders, you know, when when you started, w did you have kind of an edge or or or something that was

That you wanted to focus on to say, you know, I want to be known as this type of builder just to to be separate and and to be viewed different in the marketplace? Yeah. I appreciate you asking a question because I mean the differentials again, we all build the same thing. We all build homes, we buy the same product, half the time we use the same sub. So what sets us apart? So when I started out, one of the things that I that came that was a carryover from working with my parents is my parents were production builders.

Paul (14:52.8)

Yeah, I I appreciate you asking that question because I mean the differentials w again, we all build the same thing. We all build homes, we buy the same product, half the time we use the same sud. So what sets us apart? So when I started out, one of the things that I that came that was a carryover from working with my parents is my parents were production builders. 150, 200 homes a year, same thing. I mean, every home had the same interior paint, same stain color, stain cabinets. We'd pick carpet and backsplashes and stuff like that.

Jesse Sampley (15:12.24)

150, 200 homes a year, same thing. I mean, every home had the same interior paint, same stain color, staying cabinets. We pick carpet and backsplashes and stuff like that. But when you do that and you have a creative side, you don't get to express it. And so when I started, that was what I wanted to do. I I still started at an entry level. I mean, we were entry level homes, $150,000, $160,000, which would be $300 to $400 today. Yeah. But

Paul (15:22.634)

But when you do that and you have a creative side, you don't get to express it. And so when I started, that was what I wanted to do. I I still started an entry level. I mean, we were entry level homes, $150,000, $160,000, which would be $300 to $400 today. But my goal was to put cool stuff in basic homes. I was building alongside the first neighborhood I went in, I was the fourth builder.

Jesse Sampley (15:41.837)

My goal was to put cool stuff in basic homes. I was building alongside the first neighborhood I went in. I was the fourth builder. Everybody else in there was an established builder. They build in my price range and three or four or five price ranges up. So they're doing really cool homes, building seven, eight hundred thousand million dollar homes, putting the coolest stuff in them. So their basic homes suffered creativity and expression. So that was my edge: I'm gonna go in and build.

Paul (15:50.248)

Everybody else in there was an established builder. They build in my price range and three or four or five price ranges up. So they're doing really cool homes, building seven, eight hundred thousand million dollar homes, putting the coolest stuff in them. So their basic homes suffered creativity and expression. So that was my edge was I'm gonna go in and build a great house. All these guys are great builders, so I can't compete with them on quality, but I'm gonna put cool stuff in. I'm gonna put the cool slipper tubs in, the accent walls, some.

Jesse Sampley (16:11.394)

Great house. All these guys are great builders, so I can't compete with them on quality. But I'm gonna put cool stuff in. I'm gonna put the cool slipper tubs in, the accent walls, some some really unique things with LED lighting that was just starting to happen back then that none of them were thinking about. And it gave me an edge. I was going into these neighborhoods and after a few years, there'd be four of us, I would be selling the majority of the homes in those neighborhoods. Another thing that was went really well for me at the time was I didn't know how to price homes.

Paul (16:19.721)

Some really unique things with LED lighting that was just starting to happen back then that none of them were thinking about. And it gave me an edge. I was going into these neighborhoods, and after a few years, there'd be four of us, I would be selling the majority of the homes in those neighborhoods. Another thing that was went really well for me at the time was I didn't know how to price homes. And I also gave a lot of stuff away for free. So good thing my cost of living for myself was very low because.

Jesse Sampley (16:40.819)

And I also gave a lot of stuff away. So good thing my cost of living for myself was very high because I wasn't making very much money because I didn't know any better. And it's funny because my vice president of operations right now came from one of those builders who at one time was the largest builder in town that they they got older and they, you know, shut the company down. They had a son who who started his own company and wanted to do it without

Paul (16:46.855)

I wasn't making very much money because I didn't know any better. And it's funny because my vice president of operations right now came from one of those builders who at one time was the largest builder in town, but they they got older and they, you know, shut the company down. They had a son who who started his own company and wanted to do it without he wanted to do it his own way. So he he broke off from that when they shut the company down because of how big it was.

Jesse Sampley (17:09.154)

he wanted to do his own way. So he he broke off from that when they shut the company down because of how big it was. And so I hired this guy like the next day. I was like, I need somebody like you because we're growing. And it's and it's great because that other person who, you know, the son who went and started his company, he and I are now partners in like several real estate developments. wow. So we get along well. But one of the things that that Randy told me.

Paul (17:14.923)

And so I hired this guy like the next day. I was like, I need somebody like you because we're growing. And it's and it's great because that other person who, you know, the son who went and started his company, he and I are now partners in like several real estate developments. So we get along well. But one of the things that that Randy told me, he goes, Yeah, we watched you and we were looking at you going, How the hell is he selling so many houses? and we're like,

Jesse Sampley (17:35.648)

He goes, Yeah, we watched you and we were looking at you going, how the hell is he selling so many houses? and we're like, these numbers don't make sense. He can't be making any money. You know, that was back when, you know, again, no one ever tells us everybody has this presumption that builders should only make 10%. And me not knowing what a 10% margin was, I thought a 10% margin was a 10% markup, which is about an 8% markup margin. And then and then you have.

Paul (17:41.814)

These numbers don't make sense. He can't be making any money. I'm like, you're right. I wasn't making any money. You know, that was back when, you know, again, no one ever tells us. Everybody has this presumption that builders should only make 10%. And me not knowing what a 10% margin was, I thought a 10% margin was a 10% markup, which is about an 8% markup margin. And then you have seepage and, you know, a profit erosion. Next you know, you're not doing anything. So anybody out there listening,

Jesse Sampley (18:04.709)

seepage and you know it profit erosion. Next thing you know you're not doing that. So so anybody out there listening, please don't listen to everybody that's a layman that thinks builders should only make 10% because you can, but you won't make it. You won't you won't last very long. So you know that was my differentiator for a very long time. But I have noticed over the years we do cool features, come up with great ideas, but six months later you see it in everybody else's home. Whether the builder went and took it,

Paul (18:10.005)

Please don't listen to everybody that's a layman that thinks builders should only make 10% because you can, but you won't make it. You won't, you won't last very long. So, you know, that was my differentiator for a very long time. But I have noticed over the years we do cool features, come up with great ideas, but six months later, you see it in everybody else's home. Whether the builder went and took it or the clients just went to the builder and said, Hey, I like this cool thing I saw. Can you do it? And they go, Yeah, of course. I mean, there's nothing proprietary about.

Jesse Sampley (18:32.21)

Or the clients just went to the builder and said, Hey, I like this cool thing I saw. Can you do it? And they go, Yeah, of course. I mean, there's nothing proprietary about a unique custom feature. Now you always did custom homes or d were some of these early homes spec homes? That we had to build models and a few specs, but thankfully, because I was at a price point and I got very fortunate to have my very first development that I went into.

Paul (18:39.792)

a k a unique custom feature.

Paul (18:48.959)

That we had to build models and a few specs, but thankfully, because I was at a price point and I got very fortunate to have my very first development that I went into be one of the most successful developments in the marketplace during that economical time from 08 to 12, 13, 14 until things turned around. So I got fortunate with that and we focused on specs up until 2022.

Jesse Sampley (19:00.978)

be one of the most successful developments in the marketplace during that economical time from eight to twelve, thirteen, fourteen until things turned around. Okay. I got fortunate with that and we focused on specs. Up until twenty twenty two, we were seventy to eighty percent custom bills and the the rest was specs and then models that were turning. Okay. We our marketplace, all the developers want us to have models. So those models we hold them for a year and then they turn into a spec a year later.

Paul (19:15.337)

We were 70 to 80% custom builds. And the the rest was specs and then models that were turning. We our marketplace, all the developers want us to have models. So those models we'd hold them for a year and then they turn into a spec a year later. but the market's different now because since 23, my entire market, not just for myself, but even the custom home builders, all of us have shifted to we're 70, 80% specs and 20 to 30 percent customs.

Jesse Sampley (19:30.393)

Okay. but the market's different now because since twenty three, my entire market, not just for myself, but even the custom home builders, all of us have shifted to we're 70, 80 percent specs and 20 to 30 percent customs. Wow. So that's been an adaptation that's been something that's been hard to transition and and and stomach when fifteen years of my nineteen year career I was a custom home builder. Yeah. On the

Paul (19:46.729)

So that's been an adaptation that's been something that's been hard to transition and and and stomach when fifteen years of my nineteen year career I was a custom home builder.

Jesse Sampley (20:00.612)

How did you find like some of these early clients? Were the were they kind of being funneled to you just because of the development and because of the attention that that development had? Or how were how were you finding some of these early clients?

Paul (20:14.131)

It was interesting. I went on a one of my vendors, our largest vendor in town, took us on a trip to a window manufacturer with probably 20 other builders. And we're sitting at, I think it was MillGuard. We're MillGuard's manufacturing facility in Denver, and there's all these other builders around us, and I'm the youngest guy there. And everybody's like, who has websites? Everybody raised their hand but me. I'm the kid. I'm the supposed to be the tech savvy youngster, and all these other guys had websites. So guess what? We built a website about a week later, we got started.

Jesse Sampley (20:14.896)

It was interesting. I went on a one of my vendors, our largest vendor in town, took us on a trip to a window manufacturer with probably 20 other builders. And we're sitting at, I think it was MillGuard. We're at Bill Guard's manufacturing facility in Denver, and there's all these other builders around us, and I'm the youngest guy there. And everybody's like, Who has websites? Everybody raised their hand but me. I'm the kid. I'm supposed to be the tech savvy youngster, and all these other guys had websites. So guess what? We build a website.

All of our marketing was reputation, which that doesn't go very far. Most, you know, people think brand reputation, but go talk to somebody on the street, unless they built a custom home, hardly any of them know who builders are. So it was just the traffic driven through the neighborhood of having a model home. But the transition of social media probably in the the mid-teens, 15, 16, we, you know, we at least started doing a little bit

Paul (20:44.925)

All of our marketing was reputation, which that doesn't go very far. Most, you know, people think brand reputation, but go talk to somebody on the street, unless they built a custom home, hardly any of them know who builders are. So it was just the traffic driven through the neighborhood of having a model home. But the transition of social media, probably in the the mid-teens, 15, 16, we, you know, we at least started doing a little bit, not much, but it wasn't until

Jesse Sampley (21:12.933)

Not much, but it wasn't until 2020 that we really started doing more social media marketing. And then Fayola and I partnered in 2022. And he's been running social media since then for us. And it and it's been very helpful. I still think even to this day, most of our most of our client development is through having model home presence and developments and somewhat from

Paul (21:15.157)

2020 that we really started doing more social media marketing. And then Fayola and I partnered in 2022. And he's been running social media since then for us. And it and it's been very helpful. but I still think even to this day, most of our, most of our client development is through having model home presence and developments, and somewhat from just Google AdWords and SEO.

Jesse Sampley (21:43.192)

just Google AdWords and SEO. But I will I do want to say that because I think it is a bigger question. But today, even though we we market heavily on social media, we don't buy ads. I I found that we tried that in 24 for a year. We put a lot of money at it and just nothing came of it. Like we threw a bunch of money at Google AdWords, threw a bunch of money at social media marketing, and it didn't produce anything. So

Paul (21:45.291)

but I will I do want to say that because I think there's a bigger question. But today, even though we we market heavily on social media, we don't buy ads. I I found that we tried that in 24 for a year. We put a lot of money at it and just nothing came of it. Like we threw a bunch of money at Google AdWords, threw a bunch of money at social media marketing, and it didn't produce anything. So all of our social media content we do today,

Jesse Sampley (22:11.373)

All of our social media content we do today, we changed our focus to make social media about brand awareness, become an authority in your industry and your market. That's what we focus on. Instead of trying to focus on specific sales, we get it. That's great. But if you're looking for that as your driver, then you're gonna get jaded because you're gonna realize it doesn't pay off, and then you're just gonna stop doing social.

Paul (22:14.292)

We changed our focus to make social media about brand awareness, become an authority in your industry and your market. That's what we focus on. Instead of trying to focus on specific sales, we get it. That's great. But if you're looking for that as your driver, then you're gonna get jaded because you're gonna realize it doesn't pay off. And then you're just gonna stop doing social media. So you have to understand the value you get from it.

Jesse Sampley (22:38.819)

So you have to understand the value you get from it. Yeah. And there's also this is I mean, th it's kind of a changing tide, but you know, I feel like the younger generation and and statistics show this is like people really hate to be sold to. And kind of the new way to be sold to is that I'm gonna go and find my own information. If you're one of the people that is providing that information, good for you. You know, you may be a contender, but do not come at me with some of these old fashioned sales task tactics.

you know, because I am the one in control. And that is you know, we're we'll get into a little bit of the the AI conversation later on in here, but you know, AI is kind of just enable that of, you know, people have so much information at their fingertips that you really do have to be a an educator, disguised as a builder or disguised as a a plumber, or you know, you just have to put and and it's funny to say, but it's like, I mean, that is how people

if you're in the the search and find game, that is how people are searching. And it's I just got a report yesterday that said that for the first time in history, there are more bots, AI bots, that are that are crawling websites than humans are. So, you know, people are going directly to Chat GBT, Perplexity, Gemini, these platforms

To find answers. And then these AI bots are going to the websites and going to blogs and going to social medias to find the answers. But it is we've already surpassed that. So people aren't going directly to websites to find the answer. They're trusting these platforms to provide the info to them to make an educated decision, which is, I mean, it's it's wild. It's just the way it is today. So I mean you you bring up a really important part, which is, you know, overall branding, how people view you.

it's not as easy and try transactional to say I'm gonna put fifteen thousand dollars in ads and I'm going to get a three hundred and fifty thousand dollar home. It's it's not quite like that because people are searching for you know, these people fit, you know, me. You know, you know, how do they view technology in homes, you know, because I'm a real tech savvy person versus the person that's looking for a legacy builder and, you know, doesn't want so much of that. Like people are can be so picky and choosy.

Jesse Sampley (24:59.104)

that they, you know, are trying to find people that really match them. So the more that you can really show your brand and show what makes you special and the the, you know, kind of the pedigree and and what you think is important, it kind of attracts these people naturally, which which I'm sure you found and and you've seen that, you know, people want to see past homes and they want to see photos and they want to see kind of your approach to the projects. Have you seen the

You know, kind of touching a little bit, I guess, on the sales process. Have you seen the sales process change a little bit over time as far as what questions your customers are asking?

Paul (25:37.648)

Absolutely. There's this there's two reasons. Like one, I started out as an entry-level builder. So my customers were asking X, Y, and Z questions anyway. And as we elevated to higher levels of building, that changes. So for us, we build, we don't build starter homes. I can't compete in that market. I don't have any interest or try to right now. we started about 400,000, which is our entry level in our market.

Jesse Sampley (25:38.528)

Absolutely. There's this there's two reasons. Like one, I started out as an entry level builder. So my customers were asking X, Y, and Z questions anyway. And as we elevated to higher levels of building, that changes. So for us, we build, we don't build starter homes. I can't compete in that market. I don't have any interest or try to right now. we started at 400,000, which is our entry level in our market.

Paul (26:05.659)

We go into the million and a half, two million, and we'll have some larger customs occasionally bigger than that. But the thing I've I've noticed from because when you build in that range, your client base is 25 years old to 75 years old. And so you get a vast difference psychology based on each person. You get the client that walks in the door that that you know.

Jesse Sampley (26:06.398)

And we go into the million and a half, two million, and we'll have some larger customs occasionally bigger than that. But the thing I've I've noticed from because when you build in that range, your client base is 25 years old to 75 years old. And so you get a vast difference psychology based on each person. You get the client that walks in the door that that you know.

Paul (26:33.544)

They feel comfortable with you right away. There, you get the client that you have to earn their trust through the entire course of construction. You get the cli, you know, you get you get a smorgaseborg of people. You know, people say, Well, can I go, can I go, can I go look at the home during construction? Absolutely. I will I've had one guy and he used to build Pizza Huts and he retired. He went out there and put a lawn chair on the curb and watched the whole house be built every day. Brought McDonald's breakfast to the cruise every day.

Jesse Sampley (26:34.333)

They feel comfortable if you write away. There you get the client that you have to earn their trust through the entire course of construction. You get the cli you know you get you get a a smorgasmorgan people, you know, people say, Well, could I go can I go can I go look at the home during construction? Absolutely. I will I've had one guy, he used to build Pizza Huts in retired. well. He went out there and put a lawn chair on the phone and watched the whole house be built every day. Brought McDonald's breakfast to the crews every day.

Paul (27:03.09)

And then I have customers that are like, yeah, we haven't been by yet. We just figured we'd see it when it's done. And this is like a six to nine month process. You're like, you have this patience of a saint to be able to do that. But you know, with all of those personalities, you get different questions asked, you get different degrees of desire and understanding. And the thing that I equate our, you know, all the people I can beat with, especially

Jesse Sampley (27:03.901)

And then I have customers that are like, yeah, we haven't been by yet. We just figured we'd see it when it's done. It's like a six to nine month process. You have patience of a sake to be able to do that. But you know, with all of those personalities, you get different questions asked, you get different degrees of desire and understanding. And the thing that I equate are, you know, all the people I can meet with, especially.

Paul (27:32.104)

building at the higher end, we're all great builders. You know, there's there's nothing that I'm doing that's that's that's, you know, I'm not putting one extra nail in that makes my house better. I may have a couple of key products that I use. Like I I believe in, you know, zip wall versus Tyvek. You know, I I like to joke with people who say you wrap presents. You don't wrap homes, you know, I put I put this product. But you Tyvek's still a great product, but I I have to have my reasons why I use this, this, and this. And my competitor uses this, this, and this, and this is

Jesse Sampley (27:32.914)

building at the higher end, we're all great builders. You know, there's there's nothing that I'm doing that's that's a that's you know, I'm not putting one extra nail in that makes my house bad. I may have a couple of key products that I use. Like I I believe in you know zip wall versus Tyvek. You know, I I like to joke with people and say you wrap presents. You don't wrap phones. You know, I put I put this product. But you know Tyvek's still a great product, but I I have to have my reasons why I use this, this, and this my competitor uses this, this, and this and this is

Paul (28:01.854)

But other than those variations, one of the things that we do is we we convey that I'm not trying to find the cheapest sub. My sub-partners, some of these people were my dad's sub-partners 20 and 30 and 40 years ago. You know, my dad was a builder for f 50 years. You know, it's like my HVAC company, I partner with him, and he's the son. His dad had partnered with my dad as his VC.

Jesse Sampley (28:02.673)

Now, other than those variations, one of the things that we do is we we convey that I'm not trying to find the cheapest sub. My sub-partners, some of these people were my dad's sub-partners 20, 30, and 40 years ago. You know, my dad was a builder for 50 years. You know, it's like my HVAC company. I partner with him, and he's the son. His dad had partnered with my dad as his HBC.

Paul (28:28.647)

So 50 years we've been working with this company and we get let some other people come and go, but I sell consistency. You know, I've got other builders, they're like, yeah, you might, you know, I just had somebody in my office last week. They're like, yeah, we went with you because your consistency and quality. This other guy we know who's a great builder, you know, one of our I have friends that got the bad crew. I had the friends that had the good framer or the bad framer or the good painter. And you're like,

Jesse Sampley (28:29.469)

So 50 years we've been working with this company. Amazing. Some other people come and go. I sell consistency. You know, I've got other builders. They're like, yeah, you might, you know, I just had somebody in my office last week. They're like, yeah, we went with you because your consistency and quality. This other guy we know who's a great builder, you know, one of our I have friends that got the bad crew. I have some friends that have the good frame or the bad frame or the good pain. And you're like, I don't want my customers to feel like that. You go to McDonald's, whether you like McDonald's or not.

Paul (28:53.735)

I don't want my customers to feel like that. You go to McDonald's, whether you like McDonald's or not, anywhere in the country, quarter pounder tastes the same. And I want my customers, whether you're buying a $400,000 house or two million dollar house, knowing that we put the same level of quality. I've got the same subs. And I, you know, we're not the cheapest guy. When you're buying a $400,000 house from us, you're paying a five percent premium give or take over what the other guy is, but you're getting the same quality that I'm putting in a million dollar home, maybe just different products.

Jesse Sampley (28:58.788)

Anywhere in the country, quarter pounder tastes the same. Yeah. And I want my customers, whether you're buying a four hundred thousand dollar house or two million dollar house, knowing that we put the same level of quality. I've got the same subs. And I, you know, we're not the cheapest guy. When you're buying a four hundred thousand dollar house from us, you're paying a five percent premium give or take over what the other guy is, but you're getting the same quality that I'm putting in a million dollar house. That'd be just different products. and so we have to try to share that with the customers in a way.

Paul (29:23.323)

And so we have to try to share that with the customers in a way that they understand. and the other side of it's hospitality. You know, we live in a world where everything you get, I was looking for my phone, everything you can get or want, you can get on your phone within a couple of hours to a couple of days. when I was a kid growing up, you know, I didn't like mustard on my hamburger. My parents would go to McDonald's, they what do you want? and cheeseburger with no mustard. Sorry, they don't come that way. Like,

Jesse Sampley (29:27.823)

That they understand. and the other side of it's hospitality. You know, we live in a world where everything you get, I was looking for my phone, everything you can get or want, you can get on your phone within a couple of hours to a couple of days. when I was a kid growing up, you know, I didn't like mustard on my hamburger. My parents would go to McDonald's, they're What do want? I want cheeseburger, no mustard. Sorry, they don't come that way. Okay. Now you get everything you want.

Paul (29:52.498)

Okay. Now you get everything you want, you know? And so I cater to my customers. You know, that I'll get realtors that come in that have worked with other builders and their clients are like, so what's your change order fee? I'm like, I don't have a change order fee. They're you don't have a change order fee? I'm like, no. Like, I encourage my customers to get what they want. Well, I have a customer, 30, 40 change orders. And you know that that screws with our efficiency, but the customer gets what they want. You know.

Jesse Sampley (29:57.368)

You know, and so I cater to my customers. You know, there I I'll get realtors that come in that have worked with other builders and their clients are like, So what's your change order fee? I'm like, I don't have a change order fee. They're like, You don't have a change order fee? I'm like, no. I'm like, I encourage my customers to get what they want. A lot of customer 30, 40 change orders. And you know that that screws with our efficiency, but the customer gets what they want. You know, walk into the best restaurant in your hometown if the waiter

Paul (30:21.863)

Walk into the best restaurant in your hometown. And if the waiter or waitress acts like an ass to you, it doesn't matter how good that food is. Your experience is ruined. All you're going to remember is poor customer service. But go into an Applebee's or a Chili's and you've got great customer service where they are taking care of you and they got a smile and they treat you with dignity and respect. That B or C food is going to lit stay with you a lot longer.

Jesse Sampley (30:27.192)

Or waitress acts like an ass to you, it doesn't matter how good that food is. Your experience is ruined. All you're gonna remember is poor customer service. They go into an Applebee's or a Chili's, and you've got great customer service where they are taking care of you and they got a smile, they treat you with dignity and respect. That B or C food is gonna live stay with you a lot longer. And I think that's the way the customer service experience has to be in building a home. I tell people it's like.

Paul (30:50.781)

And I think that's the way the customer service experience has to be in building a home. I tell people, it's like, you know, I want to meet with you to find out if we're going to be a good fit because it's like we're dating. We can't break up three weeks in and go, this isn't working. We got to stick this out for six to nine months because you're going to be meeting with my superintendent, my designer, my drafter. You're going to be working with me for six to nine months. And we got to make sure that we all understand each other and respect each other.

Jesse Sampley (30:57.815)

You know, I want to meet with you to find out if we're gonna be a good fit because it's like we're dating. We don't break up three weeks in and go, This isn't working. We gotta stick this out for six to nine months because you're gonna be meeting with my superintendent, my designer, my drafter, you're gonna be working with me for six to nine months. And we gotta make sure that we all understand each other and respect each other. Talk us through that that process, you know, as a as a cuss as a potential client, you know, comes and you and you're explaining the process.

What does that look like? What what are things are you telling them to make sure that you guys are a good fit for each other?

Paul (31:33.039)

It's interesting, you know, the good fit thing goes both ways. There have there haven't been a lot of times because you know we're all in the business of trying to make money. But I have had to tell a couple of people occasionally, hey, I don't think we're a good fit. I think you either you might not even be the kind of person that wants to go down this path of building a custom home because it it's going to be a drain for you. and it might not fit your personality. You may be better off going and buying an existing home. But

Jesse Sampley (31:33.855)

It's interesting, you know, the good fit thing goes both ways. There have there haven't been a lot of times because you we're all in the business of trying to make money. But I have had to tell a couple of people occasionally, hey, I don't think we're a good fit. I think you either you might not even be the kind of person that wants to go down this path of building a custom home because it it's gonna be a drain for you. it it might not fit your personality. You may be better off going and buying an existing home. But

Paul (32:02.238)

That doesn't happen. Yeah, that's one in a hundred. Cause you try to make you try to make things work with everybody. But the the key on customer service is understanding your client. And that means understanding your client's needs as well as their personalities and adapting like a chameleon to fit them. It can't be, hey, we're big, bad builder. We know everything. Take it or leave it. This is our process. And there's guys that are like that.

Jesse Sampley (32:03.03)

That doesn't happen. Yeah, that's one in a hundred. Because you try to make you try to make things work with everybody. But the the key on customer service is understanding your client. And that means understanding your client's needs as well as their personalities and adapting like a chameleon to fit them. It can't be, hey, we're big, bad builder. We know everything. Take it or leave it. This is our process. And there's guys that are like that. But I'm in the small market. I'm not

Paul (32:29.789)

But I'm in a small market. I'm not, I'm not a big national builder and we don't have nationals here because our market's not big enough. So we have to adapt to your expectations. But number one, understand what their expectations are. Determine if you can live up and meet them because they're reasonable and they're not excessive. And if they are excessive, set expectations early. And that's one of the things that I get with young people starting out. We do, we do mentorship.

Jesse Sampley (32:32.567)

I'm not a big national builder and we don't have nationals here because our market's not big enough. So we have to adapt to your expectations. But number one, understand what their expectations are. Determine if you can live up and meet them because they're reasonable and they're not excessive. And if they are excessive, set expectations early. And that's one of the things that I get with young people starting out. We do we do mentorship. I also do some business coaching for people.

Paul (32:59.089)

I also do some business coaching for people in the country. And actually I've I've got I've got clients outside the United States. And one of the one of the things that we we teach them is you have to set your expectations or the clients' expectations early. Because if you live them, leave them to be ambiguous, they're gonna set them to a level that you may not be able to achieve. So you and and people are very accommodating. If they're reasonable people and you tell them, hey,

Jesse Sampley (33:03.585)

in the country and actually I've I've got I've got clients outside the United States. wow. And one of the one of the things that we we teach them is you have to set your expectations or the clients' expectations early because if you let them leave them to be ambiguous, they're gonna set them to a level that you may not be able to achieve. So you and and people are very accommodating. If they're reasonable people and you tell them, hey, expect this, this, and this from me,

Paul (33:28.059)

Expect this, this, and this from me, but I can't, I can't do this, and I but I'm not gonna do this with you. They're usually happy and adaptable with that. Nobody goes to McDonald's to buy a quarter pounder expecting it to taste like red robins. Because the expectation, but you expect it in five minutes, you expect it to be very economical, and you expect consistency. And you know what? Sometimes that's what you need. Some but sometimes you want grade A plus service.

Jesse Sampley (33:31.508)

but I can't I can't do this and I can but I'm not gonna do this with you. They're usually happy and adaptable with that. Nobody goes to McDonald's to buy a quarter pounder expecting it to taste like red robins. Because the expectation that you expect it in five minutes, you expect it to be very economical, and you expect consistency. And you know what? Sometimes that's what you need. Some sometimes you want great A plus service, and you want, you know, you know, you want to go to a Michelin star restaurant.

Paul (33:55.675)

And you want, you know, you know, you want to go to a Michelin star restaurant, but that expectation has been set for you.

Jesse Sampley (34:00.67)

But that expectation's been set for you. Tell me how you're protecting this consistency because this is gonna fall a lot on the subs, and how are you protecting that relationship with your subs to be able to produce that on a consistent basis?

Paul (34:16.829)

That that is a perpetual challenge that never goes away. Because having grown up as a tradesman and for the first, you know, 15 years of my career, being, you know, the framer, the trim carpenter, the painter, that we had an in-house detailing, we built the decks, we did the siding, the hardware, the punch list. It was very predictable. But even us having bad days, you saw deviations in that. Now you're dealing and you're outsourcing this to subcontractors who,

Jesse Sampley (34:17.641)

That that is a perpetual challenge that never goes away. Because having grown up as a tradesman and for the first 15 years of my career, being, you know, the framer, the trim carpenter, the painter, that we had an in-house detailing, we built the decks, we did the sighting, the hardware, the punch list. It was very predictable. But even us having bad days, you saw deviations in that. Now you're dealing and you're outsourcing this to subcontractors who

Paul (34:46.183)

They're turning people over and they're working for Bob and Tim and Sean and Jim. And these guys have lower expectations. And you have to maintain that. So it starts with our superintendent. One, it starts with the superintendent knowing our expectations and managing the superint managing the subcontractors to the best they can. And first and foremost, it's critiquing their work, walking the job, making sure you that.

Jesse Sampley (34:47.026)

They're turning people over and they're working for Bob and Tim and Sean and Jim and these guys have lower expectations and you have to maintain that. So it starts with our superintendent. The one it starts with the superintendent knowing our expectations and managing the super managing the subcontractors to the best they can. And first and foremost, it's critiquing their work, walking the job, making sure you that

Paul (35:13.127)

that during the middle of the work that they're doing what they need to do. It isn't, you know, it isn't just schedule maintenance. And a lot of superintendents, especially when we get somebody from another company who we thought was an A plus player, we find out they're only A plus because they worked in an ecosystem that made them A plus. They're a D in our ecosystem sometimes and we have they don't survive with us. But a lot of people think superintendents are just managing schedules, making sure

Jesse Sampley (35:13.95)

That during the middle of the work that they're doing what they need to do. It isn't you know, it isn't just schedule maintenance. And a lot of superintendents, especially when we get somebody from another company who we thought was an A plus player, we find out they're only A plus because they worked in an ecosystem that made an A plus. They're a D in our ecosystem sometimes. And we have they just don't survive with us. But a lot of people think superintendents are just managing schedules, making sure.

Paul (35:40.603)

They showed up. And no, it's quality control is the number one thing. And making sure the work's there. And if it's not right, making people change it. Because you know, fixing a problem at the frame stage versus fixing it at you know a week before closing. It's like one of those is a $50 fix or free. This one over here, now you're spending thousands of dollars raising that window up. And by the way, the Mason has to come and pull some brick down. You know, it's like catching problems early.

Jesse Sampley (35:41.403)

They showed up. No, it's quality control is the number one thing. And making sure the work's there. And if it's not right, making people change it. Because you know, fixing a problem at the frame stage versus fixing it, you know, a week before closing. It's like one of those is a fifty dollar fix for free. This one over here, now you're spending thousands of dollars raising that window up. And by the way, the mason has to come and pull some brick down. Yeah. It's like catching problems early.

Paul (36:10.237)

But we also set the expectations with our clients. Like if we screw up, we're gonna fix it. If it costs me a ton of money, you know what? Still gonna fix it. Lesson learned, you know? And those lessons, it's just like with your kids. You don't learn from your successes, you learn from your failures. Taking their iPad away for a week and grounding them from hanging out with their friends is how they learn, don't do this again. And we let that funnel all the way down. We'll eat it too, but we're gonna make everybody in the chain pay for it because.

Jesse Sampley (36:11.014)

But we also set the expectations with our clients like if we screw up, we're gonna fix it. If it cost me a ton of money, you know what? Still gonna fix it. Lesson learned, you know? And those lessons, it's just like with your kids. You don't learn from your successes, you learn from your failures. Taking their iPad away for a week and grounding them from hanging out with their friends is how they learn, don't do this again. And we let that funnel all the way down. We'll eat it too, but we're gonna make everybody in the chain pay for it because.

Paul (36:38.406)

You know, even our trim carpenters, we we we we have in house millwork and carpenters on the trim side. Everything else we sub out, but we let them know, hey, if there's a problem, instead of you just fixing it for the framer, we need to make sure the framer knows. And the superintendent should have caught it and the drywaller should have caught it. And I'm glad you caught it. And sometimes I'm going in going, Why did you not catch it? And it's just this perpetual management, you know, it never goes away.

Jesse Sampley (36:39.206)

You know, even our trim carpenters, we we we we have in-house millwork and carpenters on the trim side. Everything else gets subbed out. But we let them know, hey, if there's a problem, instead of you just fixing it for the framework, we need to make sure the framework works. And the superintendent should have caught it and the drywaller should have caught it. And I'm glad you caught it. And sometimes I'm going in going, Why did you not catch it? And it's just this perpetual management, you know, it never goes away. And

Paul (37:06.94)

And for years I used to chase, I need the good people so that I don't have to manage them. No, management never goes away. It's active. It's just like maintaining your best friend, maintaining your marriage, maintaining your children. Perpetual management of the relationship and standards never goes away till the day you die.

Jesse Sampley (37:08.165)

For years I used to chase, I need the good people so I don't have to manage them. No, management never goes away. It's active. It's just like maintaining your best friend, maintaining your marriage, maintaining your children. Perpetual management of the relationship and standards never goes away till the day you die. Transition a little bit into softwares or or systems that you've used to kind of help manage all of that.

'Cause it is one of the most crucial things is I'm trying to deliver a great product on a consistent basis so that even just my referral network can tell a similar story. And like you said this earlier on, but you know, I want Bob and Sally to have a similar story to tell. Not that I don't know what happened, but you know, this person had a great experience, this person had a terrible experience. Are there softwares? Are there anything systems that you're using that to help?

keep people accountable or that have made your life easier.

Paul (38:07.945)

Absolutely. I've been a big believer in investing in software over the years. you know, there's a lot of builders that are my size and some even bigger. They're still doing their accounting on QuickBooks. And it's like, I don't want to knock QuickBooks, but at some point in time, we outgrew it. And we outgrew the deficiencies within it instead of just making it work because it's cheap. We invested in premium accounting software in 2018. and since then I've I've I've always tried to do things. We use builder trend.

Jesse Sampley (38:08.73)

Absolutely. I've been a big believer in investing in software over the years. you know, there's a lot of builders that are my size and some even bigger, they're still doing their accounting on QuickBooks. And it's like, I don't want to knock QuickBooks, but at some point in time, we outgrew it. And we outgrew the deficiencies within it instead of just making it work because it's cheap. We invested in premium accounting software in 2018. and since then I've I've I've always tried to do things. We use Builder Trend. Okay. he's more.

Paul (38:36.744)

use MARC systems. we we just brought mark systems on not even a year ago. And so we're working through that. That's an ERP system for our production side. We also build duplexes and multifamily. one of the things I do to diversify is I have a portfolio of duplexes and multifamily rentals that we build. And so mark system works very well on the production side of that. Doesn't work great for customs at all. It's horrible for that. but

Jesse Sampley (38:38.561)

systems we we just brought mark systems on not even a year ago so we're working through that that's an ERP system for for our production side we also build duplexes and multifamily one of the things I do to diversify is have a portfolio of duplexes and multifamily rentals that we build and so mark system works very well on the production side of that doesn't work great for customs at all it's horrible for that but

Paul (39:05.158)

There's a lot also a lot of builders you probably come across them that don't estimate. Their estimate is whatever the budget was on the last house is the budget for the new house, you know? And maybe I throw three percent on it. We we truly estimate. I've I have a Excel spreadsheet. I still use Excel for estimating, but it it's got 30 tabs on it and it feeds back to other mass you know, change a lumber price in here and it feeds and populates to everything else. I mean, hundreds and hundreds of hours of working in that. Use Plan Swift.

Jesse Sampley (39:05.954)

There's a lot also a lot of builders you probably come across and that don't estimate. Their estimate is whatever the budget was in the last house is the budget for the new house, you know. And maybe I throw three percent on it. We we truly estimate. I've I have a Excel spreadsheet. I still use Excel for estimating, but it it's got 30 tabs on it and it feeds back to other maths. you know, change a lumber price in here and it feeds and populates everything else. I mean hundreds and hundreds of hours of working in that. I use Plan Swift.

Paul (39:34.448)

I use Togel AI. there's other things. I mean, we we invest in it. I mean, I use AI extensively. I don't know if you want to talk about that yet, but but just in software general, before we go to AI, we we we use a lot. I mean, it's important for us, especially COVID taught me so much. I my business grew 35% in 20, 35% in 21, 35% again in 22.

Jesse Sampley (39:35.488)

I use Togel AI. there's other things. I mean, we we invest in it. I mean I use AI extensively. I don't know if you want to talk about that yet, but software general before we go to AI. We we we use a lot. I mean it's important for us, especially COVID taught me so much. I my business grew thirty-five percent in twenty, thirty-five percent in twenty-one, thirty-five percent again in twenty-two.

Paul (40:03.889)

And I didn't make any money in 21. I barely broke even. I had 1% on the bottom because we could not keep up with the price increases from our vendors. As you know, I'd sit back and I'd add 10%. And like, okay, gosh, by the time it was done, it should have been 15 or 20. And so in our market, you know, we were able to pass on overages for lumber and a couple of other items, but we had to eat a bunch of that. And so it was important for me to set up a system where.

Jesse Sampley (40:04.203)

Wow. And I didn't make any money at 21. I barely broke even. I had 1% on the bottom because we could not keep up with the price increases from our vendors. As as you know, I'd sit back and I'd add 10%. And like, okay, gosh, by the time it was done, it should have been 15 or 20. And so in our market, you know, we were able to pass on over just for lumber and a couple of other items, but we had to eat a bunch of that. And so it was important for me to set up a system where

Paul (40:32.442)

If any one of my vendors or subcontractors increases a price at any given time, I want to be able to know how that affects every single job going forward. You can't do that stuff with QuickBooks and you can't do that stuff just waiting until the job's done to know how much you can sell the home for. And I've got a lot of buddies who do that. They're like, I can't put these houses on the market until they're done because I don't know what it's going to cost. And like, how do you not know what it's going to cost? You do $10 million of year in revenue.

Jesse Sampley (40:33.182)

If any one of my vendors or subcontractors increases a price at any given time, I want to be able to know how that affects every single job going forward. You can't do that stuff, okay? Books, you can't do that stuff just waiting till the job's done to know how much you can sell the home for. And I've got a lot of buddies who do that. They're like, I can't put these houses on the market until they're done because I don't know what it's gonna cost. I'm like, how do you not know what it's gonna cost? You do $10 million a year in revenue.

Paul (40:58.896)

And you're waiting till a project's done to know what it costs so you can sell it. That is that is ridiculous.

Jesse Sampley (40:59.636)

And you're waiting till a project's done to know what it costs so you can sell it? That is that's ridiculous. Wow. Well, AI is just an obvious overlap because so much of this stuff is getting integrated in together. So I mean where do you see the I mean, there's a lot of noise w with AI and you know, there's a lot of distraction, but what do you think as a as a builder and you've got, you know, a commercial side, you've got a rental side, you've got a lot going on. So you I think you can touch on this pretty pretty accurately is

What should people prioritize on? You know, is it the communication? Is it the systems? But you know, what aspect of AI is is kind of the most useful at this point?

Paul (41:42.638)

And it's a really tough one because there is it there's a lot of people that there's so much information out there about AI that they just don't even touch it. It's too complicated, too confusing and it's like you're leaving so much on the table. If nothing else, if you do nothing, stop going to Google. Just go to AI, just go to chat or whatever and and use that for 50% of your Google stuff. Now, if you're searching for something specifically and you need to go to the website, Google's great. But I'm on chat five times a day just asking it.

Jesse Sampley (41:43.42)

And it's a really tough one because there is it there's a lot of people that there's so much information out there about AI that they just don't even touch it. Exactly. It's too complicated, too confusing. It's like you're leaving so much on the table. If nothing else, if you do nothing, stop going to Google. Just go to the AI, just go to chat or whatever, and use that for 50% of your Google stuff. Now if you're searching for something specifically and you need to go to the website, Google's great. But I'm on chat.

Five times a day just asking it stupid questions about it, you know, whatever random thing comes up. I use I use chat. I've s transitioned to Claude for very sensitive stuff. chat's great for visual. Like I can drop a photo into chat of a home of elevation that we pull out of our three D 3D software. We use Chief Architecture for design. So we can pull a photo coming out of that.

Paul (42:12.164)

stupid questions about and you know, whatever random thing comes up. I use I use chat. I've s transitioned to Claude for very sensitive stuff. chat's great for visual. Like I can drop a photo into chat of a home of elevation that we pull out of our three D 3D software. We use chief architecture for design. So we can pull a photo coming out of that or from another architect we work with who uses like

Jesse Sampley (42:38.747)

Or from another architect we work with who uses like I don't know, doesn't matter what he uses. But he'll send us a 3D and we'll drop it into there and get great renderings coming out of it so we can alter exteriors, the design side. Claude sucks for that, but Claude's much better at numerical stuff and financial analysis. I use Copilot a little bit, but I I I think Claude works just as well. So I may, I may, you know, I don't want to have too many platforms.

Paul (42:42.011)

I don't know. Doesn't matter what he uses. But he'll send us a a 3D and we'll drop it into there and get great renderings coming out of it so we can alter exteriors, the design side. Claude sucks for that, but Claude's much better at numerical stuff and financial analysis. I use Copilot a little bit, but I I I think Claude works just as well. So I may I may, you know, I don't want to have too many platforms. But start with that, if nothing else.

Jesse Sampley (43:09.028)

But start with that, if nothing else. I filter all my emails that I send out, they go through claw or go through chat. I still write them, but I process them through there to clean them up to make sure the tone and things aren't missing. those are those are basic things that we do, but more advanced things we do. Bob analyzes all of my financials. I put all my financials, PNLs, balance sheets, projections, analysis.

Paul (43:11.727)

I filter all my emails that I I send out. They go through Claw or go through chat. I still write them, but I process them through there to clean them up to make sure the tone and things aren't missing. And those are those are basic things that we do, but more advanced things we do. Claude analyzes all of my financials. I put all my financials, PLs, balance sheets, projections, analysis since 2020 into Claude. And it

Jesse Sampley (43:38.383)

Since twenty twenty ended law. Yeah. And it it compares everything. I've got so much data in there. It's it's a it's great a great resource. I don't use it for estimating because I still do actual takeoffs, on screen takeoffs and analyze that. we're using some AI to to to shorten the timeline on some of those takeoffs, but it's still clunky, but it it's getting there. And so we're watching it.

Paul (43:40.547)

It compares everything. I've got so much data in there. It's it's a it's great, a great resource. I don't use it for estimating because I still do actual takeoffs, on screen takeoffs and analyze that. we're using some AI to to to shorten the timeline on some of those takeoffs, but it's still clunky, but it it's getting there. And so we're watching it. we since we switched to mark systems, it

Jesse Sampley (44:06.811)

We since we switched to MARC systems, it it gives us the ability to upload our invoices into the system via CVS or CSV file. And we built a Cloud program that analyzes our invoices. You know, it doesn't do all of them. if you if you have a vendor that you know have five or ten different cost codes attributed to, we don't have it refined there yet.

Paul (44:10.726)

It gives us the ability to upload our invoices into the system via CVS or CSV file. And we built a Cloud program that analyzes our invoices. You know, it doesn't do all of them. if you if you have a vendor that you have five or ten different cost codes attributed to, we don't have it refined there yet. But any of our one or two or three cost code vendors.

Jesse Sampley (44:34.513)

But any of our one or two or three Costco vendors, it pulls and extracts all the data out of those invoices, dumps it into an Excel folder, Excel file that we can upload and it just saves countless amounts of time having to manually input invoices. I mean, we're depending on what what we what you look at, our home building sites, fifteen to twenty million a year in revenue. Multifamily can be five to ten and commercial could be another five. So we're

Paul (44:37.859)

It pulls and extracts all the data out of those invoices, dumps it into an Excel folder, Excel file that we can upload. And it just saves countless amounts of time having to manually input invoices. I mean, we're depending on what what we what you look at, our home building sites, 15 to 20 million a year in revenue. Multifamily can be five to 10, and commercial can be another five. So we're we're 30 to 40 million dollar a year revenue.

Jesse Sampley (45:03.088)

We're thirty to forty million dollar a year revenue. You know, you got somebody that's that's a lot of invoices to type in manually that just up until a year ago we were doing. And you know, we we we've saved a lot of heartache and and headaches for our accounting staff to doing. When you said use cloud to to build a software, break that down in in more simple terms because you know, when people hear stuff like that, it's like, My goodness, I can never build out a software. You know, that's just I'm not a software engineer, so I cannot do that.

Paul (45:05.221)

And if you got somebody, that's a that's a lot of invoices to type in manually that just up until a year ago we were doing. And, you know, we we we've saved a lot of heartache and and headaches for our accounting staff in doing that.

Jesse Sampley (45:33.633)

I I've heard this from other people. I just want to get your take on it. But you know, just to kind of explain for people where this, you know, is a little over their head. They're just like, I don't really know what you're talking about. You built an entire software. What is that what does this process look like when you build out this the software with Claude? I'll give you I'm gonna give you two examples. First of all, we built we built out bots within Claude. My mom has because she manages the website, she manages sales.

Paul (45:48.952)

give you i'm gonna give you two examples first of all we've built we built out bots within claude my mom has because she manages the website she manages sales and she's the first touch point when the customers come in she's built some bots and agents within Claude that analyze different portions of our social media marketing Fayola manages content creation uploading

Jesse Sampley (46:02.251)

She's the first touch point when the customers come in. She's built some bots and agents within Claude that analyze different portions of our social media marketing. Fayola manages content creation uploading. But we have also since gone and piggybacked that with agents that go and analyze our performance of our social media posts and what content of different things and then.

Paul (46:17.756)

But we have also since gone and piggybacked that with agents that go and analyze our performance of our social media posts and what content of different things and then to the extent of what times a day, what days of the week, better content's gonna perform at views than other stuff. Old content that we previously have that may be two, three, four years old, reusing some of that so it can go in and pull some of that old stuff.

Jesse Sampley (46:31.767)

to the extent of what times of day, what days of the week better content's gonna perform that views than other stuff. Old content that we previously have that maybe two, three, four years old, reusing some of that so it can go in and pull some of that old stuff and and and put it in to help beef up content that we're creating. Because the idea, you know, you need enough content out there. And going out and shooting once a month or or you know or

Paul (46:47.287)

and and and put it in to help beef up content that we're creating because the idea of you know you need enough content out there and going out and shooting once a month or or you know or once every two or three months and trying to get content, you know, it's not enough. We don't need to go throw seven or eight things a day at you. it's great if you you can do that, but you know, we got a business to run too. But we need multiple multiple hits a a day and multiple hits a week. So

Jesse Sampley (47:00.33)

once every two or three months and trying to get content, you know, it it's not enough. We don't need to go throw seven or eight things a day at you. it's great if you you can do that, but the one too. But we need multiple multiple hits a w a day, and multiple hits a week. So we use that. But however, when it comes to the program that we built in Claude that analyzes invoices, I went to a programmer. I've got I've got okay that I go to church with

Paul (47:16.941)

We use that. But however, when it comes to the program that we've built and Claude that analyzes invoices, I went to a programmer. I've got I've got a buddy that I go to church with. Yeah. And he's building it and testing it and doing the coding in Python. Because like when you're messing with our financials, we don't, we don't get the we don't get the opportunity to go, that that that that video was a dud and only got a thousand or five thousand views. No, it it has to be right.

Jesse Sampley (47:29.728)

Yeah, and he's building it and testing it and doing the coding in Python. Because like when you're messing with our financials, we don't we don't get the we don't get the opportunity to go, that that that that video was a dud and only got a thousand or five thousand views. No, it it has to be right. Yeah. On time and we gotta make sure not overpaying or underpaying. So he built this something and he's perpetually refining it as we you know, I told you

Paul (47:46.705)

We've got to pay people, right? On time, and we got to make sure not overpaying or underpaying. So he built us something and he's perpetually refining it. As we, you know, I told you we started out with one vendor. We went to our biggest vendor who codes everything and we worked with them. Then we went to the next vendor and we took all of our vendors who were single cost code vendors. So we could program the system and Claude could identify it that it gets this cost code automatically. So then

Jesse Sampley (47:58.006)

We started out with one vendor. We went to our biggest vendor who codes everything and we worked with them. Then we went to the next vendor and we took all of our vendors who were single cost code vendors. So we can program the system and Cloud could identify it that it gets this cost code automatically. So then we go to, okay, now we're doing two cost code vendors. So Claude, we need you to understand here's the differentiator within the invoices that assigns it to this code or assigns it to this code.

Paul (48:15.493)

We go to, okay, now we're doing two cost code vendors. So, Claude, we need you to understand here's the differentiator within the invoices that assigns it to this code or assigns it to this code. And he did that for us. And now we're training it for the three code vendors. Our goal is to get it to the multicode vendors, but we may never get there. And it, and I don't need it to. If you can do 70% of the heavy lifting for us and then our manual process for the last 30 or 20, that's great.

Jesse Sampley (48:26.825)

And he did that for us. And now we're training it for the three code vendors. Our goal is to get it to the multicode vendors, but we may never get there. And it and I don't need it to. If you can do 70% of the heavy lifting for us and then our manual process for the last 30 or 20, that's great because this 70%, which took seven days, now takes 15 minutes. Yeah. Maybe 20.

Paul (48:45.38)

Because this 70%, which took seven days, now takes 15 minutes, maybe 20. And now we take three days to do this. I mean, it's real time. Like we're not replacing this person. We're allowing this person to manage capacity growth. So instead of needing a second person, now we've got Claude augmenting this person's capacity to do that second person's job.

Jesse Sampley (48:55.368)

And now we take three days to do this. I mean, it's real time. Like we're not replacing this person. We're allowing this person to manage capacity growth. So instead of needing a second person, now we've got Claude augmenting this person's capacity to do that second person's job. And how are you learning this person can be more thorough in other things they do?

Paul (49:15.266)

And now this person can be more thorough in other things they do.

Jesse Sampley (49:19.23)

And how are you learning these things? Like what what are your sources of education to just be aware of what is happening outside of of the businesses that you run?

Paul (49:30.778)

I I'm plugged in with with groups. have you ever heard of Patrick Bet David? he's down the floor. I I'm an early, early fan and follower of his. I mean, I've been going to all of his events since he had his first vault in 2018, been part of his groups. And I've got a huge network of people. He's got an app called Minect. I'm an expert on Manect. I'm in top fifty of his, I think thousands of people on his Minecraft's and and so

Jesse Sampley (49:31.752)

I'm plugged in with with groups. have you ever heard of Patrick Ben David? he's down the floor. I I'm an early, early fan and follower of of his. I mean, I've been going to all of his events since he had his first vault in 2018, been part of his groups. And I've got a huge network of people. He's got an app called Minect. I'm an expert on Minect. I'm in top 50 of his, I think thousands of people on his Minecraft, and and so

Paul (50:00.209)

periodically, you know, so so I'm plugged into different groups around the country and around the world. That's how I have clients, business coaching clients in Australia and Mexico, Middle East, is through that app and then through people that that come other way. So my network is way bigger than my local community. So I hear what people are doing. I was just on a call yesterday with my buddy Hassan. He he's in Saudi Arabia right now. He's back and forth between LA, Miami and Saudi Arabia. And he's

Jesse Sampley (50:00.937)

periodically, you know, so so I'm plugged into different groups around the country and around the world. That's how I have clients, business coaching clients in Australia, Mexico, Middle East. through that app and then through people that that come other way. So my network is way bigger than my local community. So I hear what people are doing. I was just on a call yesterday with my buddy Hassan. He he's in Saudi Arabia right now. He's back and forth between LA, Miami and Saudi Arabia. And he's

Paul (50:29.41)

He turned me on to stuff that he was doing in chat 16 months ago and we were laughing about that yesterday because I was updated. Like, hey, I'm doing this now. He goes, great. That's wonderful. Now let me show you what else you should be doing. And there's a lot I could share with you here, but at the same time, some of it is pr pr proprietary. It's like I I want to give keys to my my competitors to make their businesses better, but I don't want to give them every key. You know, it's like the master doesn't teach the student everything. They always hold a little back. But there's things that we're doing with

Jesse Sampley (50:30.138)

He turned me on to stuff that he was doing in chat sixteen months ago and we were laughing about that yesterday because I was updating like, Hey, I'm doing this now. He goes, great, that's wonderful. Now let me show you what else you should be doing. There's a lot I could share with you here, but at the same time, some of it is pr proprietary. It's like I I want to give keys to my my competitors to make their businesses better, but I don't want to give them every key. Yeah. You know, it's like the master doesn't teach the student everything. They always hold a little back.

But there's things that we're doing with with with AI that's coming that we're working on now. And it's an investment. And I and as much as even if I told my competitors to do it, I don't know that they're gonna spend the money. I mean, again, I've got I've got buddies managing twenty, thirty, forty million dollars a year of revenue and you know, QuickBooks that they pay five hundred dollars a year for or a thousand bucks a year to operate. And my accounting between my my I use a a software called Eclipse.

Paul (50:59.31)

with with AI that's coming that we're working on now. And it's an investment. And I, and as much as even if I told my competitors to do it, I don't know that they're going to spend the money. I mean, again, I've got I've got buddies managing 20, 30, 40 million dollars a year revenue and you know, QuickBooks that they pay $500 a year for or a thousand bucks a year to operate. And my accounting between my my I use a a a a software called Eclipse

For all of my other entities, other than just my one home building company. I mean, I have three construction companies. Only one of them is in Mark systems. Everything else is still in Eclipse. But my my month, my annual spend on accounting software alone is $60,000 a year. You know, I'm willing to invest in in software that makes things better. So I'm willing to go have my programmer say, Hey, here's your $10,000 budget. Go work on this. And if it's a dud, okay.

Jesse Sampley (51:27.472)

For all of my other entities, other than just my one home building company. I mean, I have three construction companies. Only one of them has in Mark systems. Everything else is slower than the Eclipse. But my my month, my annual spend on accounting software alone is $60,000 a year. Wow. You know, I'm willing to invest in in software that makes things better. So I'm willing to go have my programmer say, Hey, here's your $10,000 budget. Go work on this. And if it's a dud, alright.

Paul (51:55.14)

It, you know, it is. It's a dud. And we're willing to do that. But but the other thing is there's a lot of things I haven't figured out how that I should be using AI for that I should use AI for. So I'm learning and but I'm willing to spend the money to make some mistakes and give give things a shot.

Jesse Sampley (51:55.843)

It you know, it is, it's a done. And we're willing to do that. But but the other thing is there's a lot of things I haven't figured out how that I should be using AI for that I should use AI for. So I'm learning and but I'm willing to spend the money to make some mistakes and give give things a shot. And it's definitely worth connecting with other people and being aware of other things that are going on because just because it's working today doesn't mean that it's gonna work forever. And the people that do not adapt

AI or they do not at least be aware of of what other competitors are doing, then it's gonna be such a fast slope to you're just not as efficient. And when you're not as efficient, you know, there's a ripple effect to that that is just it is just too quickly gets out of control, is because you know you do not have a an advantage any longer. Looking looking, I mean you've got a s several different businesses on

On a personal side, you know, I I saw on your website there's, you know, organizations and stuff that that you guys are a part of. How how important is that and you know, is that separate from the culture that you have in in your company or you know, is that kind of makes up, you know, you guys as a whole as is prioritizing, you know, the community and things like that?

Paul (53:16.122)

We I would not be where I am if it were not for a handful of people who took the time to to help me become what I am. They had no reason to do it. My mom and dad, of course, number one and two, they had a reason to do it because I was their offspring. But I had the biggest residential developer is a mentor of mine. We're partners now in a half a dozen of developments. The largest commercial real estate investor

Jesse Sampley (53:16.88)

We

I would not be where I am if it were not for a handful of people who took the time to help me become what I am. They had no reason to do it. My mom and dad, of course, number one and two, they had a reason to do it because I was their offspring. But I had the biggest residential developer as a mentor of mine. We're partners now in half a dozen of developments. The largest commercial real estate investor or commercial developer in Wichita.

Paul (53:44.528)

commercial developer in Wichita is been a mentor and a very good friend of mine for 25 years. We're now partners on things. I had a vice president of what was one of the largest cons commercial construction companies. he since passed away was a mentor of mine when I wanted I told him one day I wanted to get into commercial construction. Guys sat me down for four hours in his basement. He's like, let me, and and he was the vice president of a $250 million commercial construction company 15 years ago.

Jesse Sampley (53:47.529)

is been a mentor and a very good friend of mine for 25 years. We're now partners on things. I had vice president of what was one of the largest commercial construction companies. he since passed away was a mentor of mine when I went in when I told him one day I wanted to get into commercial construction. Guys sat me down for four hours in this basement was like let me and and he was the vice president of a 250 million dollar commercial construction company 15 years ago.

Paul (54:14.552)

I mean, it'd be half a billion, they're half a billion dollar company today. And showed me how to estimate and taught me this and gave me these tools and connected me to people. Got me my first $300,000 commercial job, which was huge back then. It was bigger than any house at it. He got me my first multi-million dollar commercial job for him because when he left, he got into building retirement facilities. I was building him multi-million dollar memory care facilities. he got me turned on. The developer

Jesse Sampley (54:15.297)

I mean it'd be half a billion, they're half a billion dollar company today. Wow. And showed me how to estimate and taught me this and gave me these tools and connected me to people. Got me my first three hundred thousand dollar commercial job, which was huge back then. It was bigger than any house I had. He got me my first multi-million dollar commercial job for him because when he left, he got into building retirement facilities. I was building him multi-million dollar memory care facilities. he got me turned on. The developer

Paul (54:43.087)

Taught me so many things. And these guys have been my mentors. And you know, I call them with anything: personal business, future growth. So I owe it to the world and to other people to give that. I mean, I that's why I coach. That's why I'm on Menecked. But if, you know, if you're a subcontract, I was talking to this young guy who's a young framer. He's framing our new office building we're building. And it's the biggest thing he's ever framed. And it's out of his league. And we're out there every day showing him and teaching him. And I'm like, think I will.

Jesse Sampley (54:43.801)

taught me so many things. These guys have been my mentors. And you know, I call them with anything personal, business, future growth. So I owe it to the world and to other people to give that. I mean, I am that's why I coach. That's why I'm on the neck. But if, you know, if you're a subcontractor, I was talking to this young guy who's a young framer, he's framing our new office building we're building. And it's the biggest thing he's ever framed. And it's out of his league. And we're out there every day showing him and teaching him. And I'm like, I will

Paul (55:13.273)

It's like you get my time for free. Ask me anything you want. I will give anybody an hour. I've got, I can't tell you how many people have come into my office. They're like, I want to be a home builder. I want to get into construction. I want to get into real estate investment. I probably have at least one person a month that spends an hour, hour and a half with me, me getting them started. Sometimes I've even partnered with a couple people. I've I've I've spun off and done home building partnerships for two startups with two people I know that reached out to me and wanted my help.

Jesse Sampley (55:14.199)

It's like you get mic time for free. Ask me anything you want. I will give anybody an hour. I've got, I can't tell you how many people come into my office. They're like, I want to be a home builder. I want to get into construction. I want to get into real estate investment. I probably have at least one person a month that spends an hour, hour and a half with me, me getting them started. Sometimes I've even partnered with company. I've I've I've spun off and done home building partnerships for two startups with two people I know that reached out to and

Paul (55:43.361)

I've gotten some other people started. and a lot of that is free. I don't charge anybody. I charge my coaching clients and I charge my Minec people. But if you're if you're somebody that that that really wants to learn, I'm gonna teach and I'm gonna share with you my knowledge because I owe it to you because somebody gave me knowledge. I did not create any of this by myself. And I that permeates through my entire company, all of our companies.

Jesse Sampley (55:43.721)

Wow. I've gotten some other people started. and a lot of that is free. I don't charge anybody. I charge my coaching clients and I charge my Manette people. But if you're if you're somebody that that that really wants to learn, I'm gonna teach and I'm gonna share with you my knowledge because I owe it to you because somebody gave me knowledge. I did not create any of this by myself. And I that permeates through my entire company. All of our companies, we are hospitality first.

Paul (56:10.234)

We are hospitality first. We are about education and teaching. We give our knowledge to other people, whether it's my superintendent sharing with subcontractors, sharing with other people, sharing with clients. That is our purpose in this world is to make those around us better because people around us made us better. And that permeates through everything. Honesty, integrity, those are important. You know, we always do what's right.

Jesse Sampley (56:12.791)

We are about education and teaching. We give our knowledge to other people, whether it's my superintendent sharing with subcontractors, sharing with other people, sharing with clients. That is our purpose in this world is to make those around us better because people around us made us better. And that permeates through everything. Honesty, integrity, those are important. You know, we always do what's right. We always make a situation right.

Paul (56:38.841)

We always make a situation right within our possi within what we can do. And we teach and we give hospitality and we give understanding. Those are those are our values as a company.

Jesse Sampley (56:41.769)

within our possi within what we can do. And we teach and we give hospitality and we give understanding. Those are those are our values as a company. Amazing. Amazing. Well if I need a job, I know who I'm calling first. Well Paul, this has been incredible. As as we wrap up here, would you tell us what is the future? What's the next five, ten, fifteen years look like for Paul Gray homes?

Paul (56:57.071)

Appreciate you. We we

Paul (57:10.787)

man, the future looks bright. We have so many wonderful things coming out there. We've one of the I I had ADD. So I think I have career ADD, which is why I'm in so many different businesses and outside investments. but I love building the home the home company. That is our core. That is our fundamental platform and business. But outside of that, we're growing our commercial company. 50% of the work our commercial company does is for us.

Jesse Sampley (57:11.762)

Man, the future looks bright. We have so many wonderful things coming out there. We've one of the I I had ADD, so I think I have career ADD, which is why I'm in so many different businesses and outside investments. but I love building the home the home company. That is our core, that is our fundamental platform and business. But outside of that, we're growing our commercial company. 50% of the work our commercial company does is for us.

Paul (57:40.185)

Building our office. We we've bought a lot of land to build a business park on. We've got land we're going to build apartment complexes on. and then we will own those. So we're, and then the other half is for friends and clients. So our commercial company is a boutique construction company. We do the projects we like for fun people that we want to work with. we're growing the multifamily portfolio with duplexes and townhomes. Because in case you didn't know, there's not much to sell in a real residential home building company.

Jesse Sampley (57:40.92)

Building our office. We we bought a lot of land to build a business park on. We've got land we're gonna build apartment complexes on. and then we will own those. So we're and then the other half is for friends and clients. So our commercial company is a boutique construction company. We do the projects we like to find people that we want to work with. we're growing the multifamily portfolio with duplexes and townhomes. Because in case you didn't know, there's not much to sell in a realist residential home building company.

Paul (58:08.794)

You know, when you when you hang it up, you're just shutting it down and you're like, you better have invested in something because there ain't nothing to sell. And so that is my 401k, is these real estate portfolios. So we're building duplexes. We add about 25 to 30 duplexes to our portfolio every year. My wife has a property management company that we started once the kids got into school. She manages them. We we we work on that. We have outside investments. We're in a

Jesse Sampley (58:09.683)

You know, when you when you hang it up, you're just shutting it down. You know, like you better have invested in something because alright sell. And so that is my 401k, it's these real estate portfolios. So we're building duplexes. We add about 25 to 30 duplexes to our portfolio every year. My wife has a property management company that we started once the kids got into school. She manages them. We we we work on that. We have outside investments, we're in a

Paul (58:36.143)

Half a dozen restaurants. We have a home health care and hospice company. We are in crypto. we've been doing crypto mining since 2020. We don't do any crazy trades. It's just we have a bunch of machines in Texas that we pay a lot of money to for electricity because we believe in Bitcoin and we believe in and that platform is its economic value. but giving more to charity, I I hope to hope it open up a foundation in the next few years.

Jesse Sampley (58:36.934)

Half a dozen restaurants. We have a home health care and hospice company. Amazing. Crypto. we've been doing crypto mining since 2020. We don't do any crazy trades. It's just we have a bunch of machines in Texas that we pay a lot of money to for electricity because we believe in Bitcoin and we believe in and that platform is its economic value. but giving more to charity, I I hope to open up open up a foundation in the next few years.

Paul (59:05.145)

With enough capital to start it. our focus has always been on children. You know, there's everybody has needs in this world, but the children are the greatest opportunity to affect change in a community and they're the ones least capable of doing it. I'm huge in entrepreneurship. We we plan on starting an event geared towards youth entrepreneurship youth entrepreneurship, geared towards middle school students.

Jesse Sampley (59:05.862)

With enough capital to start it. our focus has always been on children. You know, there's everybody has needs in this world, but the children are the greatest opportunity to affect change in a community and they're the ones least capable of doing it. I'm huge in entrepreneurship. We we plan on starting an event geared towards youth entrepreneurship youth entrepreneurship geared towards middle school students.

Paul (59:33.349)

There's programs in high school, but I want to get these kids in sixth and seventh and eighth grade before they hit high school understanding you may be a B or C student in a in a society that tells us that the A students have excelled. Not so much today, but when you you and I were growing up, those are the kids that went on to be doctors and engineers and lawyers and X, Y, and Z. But they school doesn't teach us that entrepreneurship is the path of success in this country.

Jesse Sampley (59:34.012)

There's programs in high school, but I want to get these kids in six and seventh and eighth grade before they hit high school understanding you may be a B or C student in a in a society that tells us that the A students have excelled. Not so much today, but when you you and I were growing up, those are the kids that went on to be doctors and engineers and lawyers and X, Y, and C. But they school doesn't teach us that entrepreneurship is the path of success in this country.

Paul (01:00:00.409)

And I want to put these kids, that B student with ADD, that C kid with dyslexia, you can do fantastic and great things. And you will probably do better than those A students that are your peers. If you are in an environment and have the understanding how you are different and how your differences can make you exceptional, that somebody has to foster that. And I want to get into the public schools where they don't have the parents necessarily as much as the private and the Catholic schools and parochial schools.

Jesse Sampley (01:00:01.07)

And I want to put these kids, that B student with ADD, that C kid with dyslexia, you can do fantastic and great things. And you will probably do better than those A students that are your peers. If you are in an environment and have the understanding how you are different and how your differences can make you exceptional, that somebody has to foster that. And I want to get into the the public schools where they don't have the parents necessarily as much as the private.

Catholic schools and parochial schools, the parents teaching that I want to get out there to these kids and teach them this stuff. So those are those are the things that are down the path for me, my companies, and the people around me. Amazing. Paul, thank you so much for joining me here. I know people have gotten so much out of this. If people want to learn more and get connected with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Easiest way is to reach out on our website. It's paulgrayhomes.com.

Paul (01:00:30.617)

the parents teaching that I want to get out there with these kids and teach them this stuff. So those are, those are the things that are down the path for me, my companies, and the people around me.

Paul (01:00:52.129)

Easiest way is to reach out on our website. It's Paulgrayhomes.com. And my email address, contact information is on there. I also have the email called Paulgray.com. and it actually sends people to a landing page that shows you all the different ancillary things we do in our different business, the property management, commercial, land development, the movie stuff, the social media stuff, all of that. And

Jesse Sampley (01:00:57.148)

And my email address, contact information is on there. I also have an email called Paulgray dot com. and it actually sends people to a landing page that shows you all the different ancillary things we do in our different business, the property management, commercial, land development, the movie stuff, the social media stuff, all of that. And you know, I hate I want to be a resource to everybody out there. Anybody that thinks they can get value from us, we want to figure out how to give it to them.

Paul (01:01:18.819)

You know, I hate I want to be a resource to everybody out there. Anybody that thinks they can get value from us, we want to figure out how to give it to So thank you so much, Jesse. It's great. I really appreciate you inviting me on and taking a chance with me with your time. Thank you.

Jesse Sampley (01:01:26.702)

So thank you so much, Jesse. It's great. I really appreciate you inviting me on and taking a chance with me with your time. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you, Paul. Okay, Paul. I'm going to stop recording. What it's gonna do is it's going to

Paul (01:01:40.058)

Yep.