Builder Marketing That Works: Real Lessons in Custom Home Builder Marketing and Construction Growth

Jesse Sampley (00:31)

welcome back to the Meridian Pursuit Builders podcast. I'm your host, Jesse Sampley. And today I've got the Travis Braxton from RMB building and design out of North Carolina. Travis, you have an incredible reputation online and I'm excited to finally sit down and talk with you. let's jump right in. Take me back to the beginning and,

Tell me how you guys got started

Travis (00:54)

Sure, yeah. So my parents originally came here to Wilmington, North Carolina, our little slice of heaven. 1987. So my dad was working for the developer of a neighborhood that was just starting up here called Landfall. And my mom actually was hired as the first controller of Landfall. So they saw a great opportunity to come here and kind of set some roots. They're from Kenston, North Carolina and Snow Hill, North Carolina. And I expect...

absolutely no one to know where that is. It's just tiny little tobacco towns in the middle of nowhere. So they moved here in 87. My dad worked for the developer and then he had an opportunity once the developer unexpectedly passed away to start his own company with a partner, Old South Building Company. And then they worked all the way as a partnership until 2002 when he's like, you know, we're doing good.

My partner's getting little older, so maybe they can see an exit strategy here, buy them out, and then start my own company. And my mom was working for them at the time as the accountant, controller, CFO, whatever title you want to give it. Basically the person to keep my dad out of jail. So she's great in that aspect. So I started R &B building and design in 2003. So we just did 20 years in 2023.

quickly coming up on 25 years, which is just a blessing. So 2012, I graduated from East Carolina University, construction management degree, and then came on to the team there for management side in 2012. I've been pushing a broom, nailing boards and getting all kinds of cuts, bruises, and all things that make you manly, right? When you're in construction, ⁓ as I was growing up. So kind of really got the nuts and bolts side of it.

Jesse Sampley (02:39)

Hahaha

Travis (02:44)

Didn't really see much of the management side. My dad just wanted to grind me down just to kind of build me back up, to really appreciate and understand what everybody goes through on a daily basis. You gotta have that appreciation and that respect, I feel like, to be able to then talk to the homeowner and also talk to the trades. You can be a pretty face in a suit and show up and be all glitz and glam, but not really understand what goes into it. So I think that goes a long way with our guys.

Jesse Sampley (03:09)

It does. My dad was a home builder and he did the same thing with me. And it really helped. It helped to see the, like you said, the, appreciate your subs and also to get a more comprehensive view of the whole project. And what we found out really early on was that everything that you do from pouring the slab all the way to the very end of the

Travis (03:19)

It's cool.

Jesse Sampley (03:35)

until you get to the sheetrock stage, everything you do is for the sheetrock because it will show in the sheetrock. And he also taught us some good things that I carry on today, ⁓ even though I'm on a marketing side, still it was the work ethic side and it was, let your best work be done in a closet because even though nobody sees it, you're doing it for yourself. And I thought that was a real strong value that he instilled.

which was do this for you, not so much for other people. Other people will come to appreciate that, but it's, you you're not just doing this for other people. You yeah, you're doing this, you're taking pride in your work. go back to your mom, has she kept your dad out of jail?

Travis (04:20)

100 % success rate, so No, that's great. So my mom has since retired. We brought Katie in last year, so she's been in a little over a year with us. And ⁓ so now my mom is eagerly badgering my father to follow suit and get into retirement

Jesse Sampley (04:34)

How did you make the transition after you graduate college? How do you make this transition to more of the leadership role in the company?

Travis (04:41)

Yeah, so I think it's kind of a double edged sword there where I'm my own person, but I'm trying to follow my dad's practices, principles and have his respect, but I also need to stand alone. So I think working in the industry growing up, know, middle school, high school, little in college during the summers, you know, a lot of the guys saw me working so that helped. It took a while though, I think actually.

to get my dad's side to where he was like, okay, you can actually run a project and I can leave you alone. So that took time. I mean, we still doing really good stuff and he was kinda letting me fall on my sword a little bit there, but he didn't want me and want the company to fail, so he really wanted to make sure I was set up for success so that way the company was set up for success. So really just being in the trenches with the guys, being on the job site.

you know, talking with them. If I have questions, don't be afraid to ask, shadow them, figure out why they do it, how they do it. Just be there with them, show them respect, and then, you know, really show my dad, show the client that I know what I'm doing, and I'm doing it correctly.

Jesse Sampley (05:48)

Yeah, how long did that take?

Travis (05:50)

I've been working with him on management since 2012. No, I'd say realistically the transition probably took six or seven years. And then it just took me being hard, strong-footed in the ground and saying, okay, you have your projects, I have mine. I have no issue with you coming, you know, all my jobs, but let me run my job. know, ask me questions. Don't point the guys. it really...

Jesse Sampley (06:10)

Yeah.

Travis (06:14)

turned to a lot of success because it showed him that I was able to handle it and be able to push the ball to be able to take some stress off of him and then show him the same respect to where, you know, if I go on his jobs and I say, hey, I saw this and I'm not sure if you saw it. So it really benefited both of us.

Jesse Sampley (06:22)

Yeah.

What were some of the most challenging things for you and like things that you had to work through? Was it more the process side? it the communication side? Was it handling the subs?

Travis (06:41)

I mean, honestly, it's, you know, in this industry, every project, every job always has its challenges. You know, we could build the same house a hundred times and every job is going to be different. Every house is going to be different and have its own kind of challenges. Um, but I'd say kind of on a broad spectrum scale, probably trying to get nailed down on the processes just because I was, I was so hands on. So I understood the components, how to do it, how to build it.

how to deliver a product, then trying to make sure I'm following the appropriate processes and plans and everything that was laid out for me just to make sure I'm doing it correctly.

Jesse Sampley (07:18)

And I'm sure you're probably refining as you go along too just with

Travis (07:22)

Right, inevitably.

I mean, it was my mom and my dad for quite a while before I came in and just almost having a third or fourth set of eyes on something, can kind of see how maybe, let's tweak it a little bit here. Let's try this. Maybe it'll work. Maybe it'll help. Let's save time if we can. So you're right. It's a true teamwork and family aspect.

Jesse Sampley (07:42)

Yeah, was your dad a notebook builder or did he convert to the digital age ever?

Travis (07:48)

So no,

he can still sit in front of the table or sit in the table in front of you and draw a house upside down to where you can see exactly what it is. But he truly was pen and paper and everything was here. So trying to extract that data and be able to understand and peel behind them. Because we're blessed in the sense that we're a full design built in-house. And he is the one that has designed probably 90, 95 % of what we have done in the past.

20 some odd years.

Jesse Sampley (08:19)

wow. You guys sell your designs?

Travis (08:22)

Currently, no, we're not marketed, but if someone approached us and said, hey, you know, I love this house plan, can I buy it from you? We'd consider it. But we're not a full design company where you're gonna come to us and we just design.

Jesse Sampley (08:30)

Okay. What's your-

Okay. What does your average day look like now?

Travis (08:40)

There is no average day. So we've kind of, we've kind of, you know, not grown a tremendous amount, but I mean, it was just me and my mom and dad for quite a while. And then, you know, slowly brought on people. So now we're a team of five. So it's me and my dad on full management side. We have Chris that works under his assistant, and then he's really starting to head up our renovation sector. So I can just, I'm trying to mold him to just be able to hand it off and let him run.

And then Ava does interior design client coordinating for us. So really depending on the day, depending on where we are on projects, how many projects we have going on. But I'd say, know, major or the majority of what I do is, you know, verifying our jobs are running on time, on schedule, on budget, making sure materials are ordered appropriately, make sure we're following plan suspects, you know. And then it's, okay, now let's get in the office. Are there sales? Are we following up on calls?

Jesse Sampley (09:32)

Yeah.

Travis (09:32)

Are we

we estimating or building proposals and contracts? I I kind of did everything.

Jesse Sampley (09:36)

That's a huge part of it just right there. Just

that one thing, just the follow up. And on a sales side, that's a whole position right there. I understand what you mean now, an average day, like what in the world?

Travis (09:43)

It is, it is. ⁓

Yeah, no.

Yeah, I try not to be in the office 24-7, but I absolutely could.

Jesse Sampley (09:53)

Yeah. You mentioned renovations. What's the business look like? How much custom home ratio to renovations are you doing?

Travis (10:02)

Yeah, definitely depends on the year. COVID actually really opened up just such a realm for us on the renovation side. There were years leading up to COVID where we would maybe hit 30 % of our revenue for the year in renovations. You know, we're doing five or six to maybe 10 with small jobs. But then COVID came around and, you know, like this year, I actually see maybe exceeding our custom side just because

with how our market has shifted in the past five, six years to where we've really exploded on the cost of homes and people have realized like, hey, I have so much equity in my home. I love where I live. I just need to tweak a couple of things here and there. So we luckily were set up ahead of COVID on the renovation. So it really flows seamlessly. And then, you know, me and my dad saw, hey, we need to pick up somebody else to help with management as we're working on my dad's exit strategy.

Jesse Sampley (10:42)

Yeah.

Travis (10:58)

So Chris has come on to really kind of help alleviate a lot of load because I was the one handling all the renovations previously because my dad was very comfortable and content doing the new build side. So it really helped me to kind of open up and then spread out my feelers and work on getting additional work.

Jesse Sampley (11:15)

What kind of renovations were those? Did you have a minimum type of renovation that you would take on?

Travis (11:22)

I say yes and no. So typically the smallest renovation would be a master bath and they're usually starting around $75,000, $80,000. Kitchens, about $125,000 to $150,000 is kind of where we're starting. You know, I have no issue going in and doing smaller projects, but I tell people up front, like, we're going to be expensive for a little guest bath. So I'd say that's kind of where we're starting.

Jesse Sampley (11:47)

Yeah, but you're powered by kind of the renovation side is powered by this custom home builder, all the expertise that you bring to the table.

Travis (11:55)

100%. Yeah, I mean, we're very management heavy with it. have, you know, technologies and things that we pull from the custom side. And the majority of our trades that work on the custom side work with our innovation as well.

Jesse Sampley (12:06)

that's nice.

Have you, work with a lot of the same subs for years and years?

Travis (12:11)

We do. Yeah, I mean some of them 30, 40 years.

Jesse Sampley (12:14)

Wow.

Wow, that's a testament to the management style. Not everybody can say that.

Travis (12:18)

Well, you're right, right. mean, the biggest thing

is you turn a bill in on Wednesday, Thursday, you actually check Friday. So we look out for our guys. And people appreciate it. I mean, we have high standards, but as long as people understand and we're all doing to that standard and there's an understanding, then nobody has an issue with

Jesse Sampley (12:25)

Wow.

Is there anything else you guys did to kind of foster or continue to build that relationship over the years with the subs just to make them feel appreciated?

Travis (12:48)

Yeah, I've tried to, you know, kind of like the typical bring a lunch, bring coffee. Don't tell the hummers, bring them some beer at the end of the day, know, throw up, sneak it in their cooler. Yeah. ⁓

Jesse Sampley (12:56)

you

Homeowners

don't listen to this show, so it's okay, you're safe. Yeah, maybe some bourbon every once in a while. There you go.

Travis (13:02)

perfect, yeah yeah. Lots of beer guys! ⁓

Yeah, I keep that for myself.

Yeah, donuts, coffee go a long way in the mornings, know, just some pizzas every once in a while. And then yeah, there's some beer, some waters, Gatorades, and their coolers occasionally. And then every year for Christmas, we always showcase one project we have going on. And we have, you know, all the trades that work for us, real estate agents, insurance, past clients, they all come to this house.

We usually have 75 to 125 people that will show up so they can see the projects, we feed them. Gray Cater at Wellington Mill of the Island, I think the best, honestly. But yeah, so just bring them in and just be able show off what they're doing to past clients, hope for future clients, etc.

Jesse Sampley (13:52)

Is this a parade home or is this something, another thing you guys do?

Travis (13:54)

No,

unfortunately with kind of the size of the company we are and where our projects end, I mean we're on, we do a parade at home about once every five years. We just got to the right client that'll let us do it and then make sure the project ends on time. Cause we have to have, the project has to be closed within 90 days of when the parade starts. So that's hard for us.

Jesse Sampley (14:03)

Okay.

Okay,

yeah.

Travis (14:13)

So, but yeah, anytime we do a parade at home, know, I'm reaching out to everybody. like, hey, if you have flyers, if you have cards, if you want to be there to talk about your product, please, you know, I'm there, you know, Saturday, Sunday for two weeks straight. So please come hang out with me, help the monotony, you know, showcase, showcase me. But know that, yeah, anytime we can do a parade, we're loving to do it.

Jesse Sampley (14:29)

Yeah.

I bet. What's the local builders association that you're a part of?

Travis (14:41)

So Wilmington Cape Fear Home Builders Association, we are the fourth largest in the nation and the third largest in the state or second largest in the state. So Charlotte, we're battling, so Charlotte's just big and then we're battling against Raleigh for kind of that second third in the state. But yeah, North Carolina's team, but with the Home Builders Association, cannot brag on the Home Builders Association enough. mean, they're wonderful.

Jesse Sampley (14:47)

Wow.

Okay. ⁓

the most value you get out of your local home builders association?

Travis (15:13)

Yes, I would say number one, luckily at a local level, we're large, we're involved. We have a lot of good oyster roast, shrimp roast. We do cornhole tournaments, golf tournaments. So we're really involved. So it's really good to be able to see other trade partners and other builders in the industry. We can all just, you know, gripe about homeowners and suppliers costing too much and taking too long. So, but then on the flip side, you know, really good activists and lobbyists for our industry.

So, you know, the last one that was upfront and center with the tariffs as a whole with the country, they were great to say, hey, you know, you got a tariff on Canada, but Canadian lumber is not going to have a tariff. And they fought for it. So that saved us a tremendous amount of money because we get so many soft goods from Canada, even being from North Carolina, you know, the pine tree state, we're still getting a lot of material from Canada. So just little things like that, helping with housing builds, affordability.

Yeah, materials, tariffs, things of that nature, they're really pushing to make sure that us as industry is protected.

the biggest thing with any home builders association is membership and involvement. If we look at it as, you're my competitor, I don't care about you, I'm not going to look out for you. If you have that mindset, it's not going to succeed. But if you have the mindset of, I don't want all the work in this town, I can't do all the work. Let's come together. Let's try to help each other. Let's feed each other work. If I can't pick something up, like, hey, let me push it in your direction and vice versa.

Jesse Sampley (16:38)

think that's more our generation too, right? Is we don't have the scarcity mindset to where, you we've got to hold all of our cards to ourself, but it's a lot more of a collaborative experience rather than our dads, which were, you know, hey, you come to my job site, I'm going to shoot you. You know, don't be looking at, don't be talking to my subs and don't be walking on my project. It's just totally, totally different. Tell me more about...

Travis (16:50)

Absolutely.

Right.

That's right. You're my guys.

Jesse Sampley (17:05)

You know, how you're working with clients, how you're building good expectations, what the communication channel looks like, that's a big hurdle for some people.

Travis (17:15)

Right.

So, so number one, you know, we, try to make it upfront that we're going to be communicative. We're, we're active. We're on the job site daily, you know, multiple times a day. If we come across anything, I'd rather head it off. Let's get upset now, but let's create a solution and then we can move forward and push on from there. I mean, think about it. We're working together for 12 to 24 months. So there's going to be some.

agitations, some problems, some issues in that relationship. mean, look at any friendship, look at any marriage. You're not going to be a perfect track record for a year or two.

Jesse Sampley (17:50)

Yeah, sometimes they don't even last that long.

Travis (17:52)

true. it's just, okay, let's let's head it off. Let's let's find a solution. Let's let's rip that bandaid off per se. So that's just one, you know, we're gonna we're gonna call, text, email, we're gonna stay up to date. We also use a platform called Builder Trend, which is fantastic. Daily logs, pictures, videos, all of our documents are there. We require our clients to approve

selections and change orders physically there so we have a backup you know it's kind of a third check but they're physically checking it signing it and there's also a running budget on there so it just kind of keeps everything up to date and just really in front of them so they can see how the project's evolving and growing or not.

Jesse Sampley (18:30)

Do

you see customers, do they engage with that? Do they use that platform?

Travis (18:36)

Yes and no. I'd say the ones that are out of town typically we use it more just because they can log in, you know, either daily or every a couple times a week and just see updates and progress pictures, which are I think vital. And then the ones that are in town, they're they're usually on the job a couple times a week, but they're still checking builder trend. And it's nice too. We don't have to get that one email like, Hey, what was the plumbing fixture I picked out for the powder room? It's like,

you know, it's on builder training. They kind of learned to go there as a first asset and resource before they're hitting this up, which is fine if they want to let us know or ask a question, you know, we're here, but if we can have a tool that frees us up at five, 10 minutes, you know that our time is so invaluable.

Jesse Sampley (19:17)

Yeah.

When people are in the design stage, everything that they pick out is all of that getting translated into builder trend.

Travis (19:26)

So that's kind of one thing we're looking into. So traditionally it's been during construction. So we're looking at possibly getting pre-con in as a Builder Trend. So starting the job, right, as soon as we sign what we have is called a pre-construction services agreement. So we do get a contract signed, a deposit to carry us through the design phase estimation. So we're talking, you know, roughly about, as soon as we sign a PSA, we're gonna start them on Builder Trend.

and then we can build a schedule that'll show like, here's our milestones. This is when I need these selections approved. This is when to expect plans. This is when to expect pricing. So we're looking to do that. A couple of builders in my builder group across the country, they utilize that and they see good success because clients can log in and just kind of see those milestones like, hey, three weeks. Okay, no problem. But crap, Friday, that's tomorrow. I gotta go pick out some cabinets and hardware. So let me go.

Jesse Sampley (20:19)

Yeah.

Travis (20:23)

So it just kind of helps speed things along and keep them on a schedule versus whenever you want to do it, you know, we're here for you.

Jesse Sampley (20:28)

Yeah,

yeah, time can really slip by real fast, especially

Travis (20:32)

And we all

want to be diligent and respect people's time.

Jesse Sampley (20:37)

Yeah. Tell me more about the communication side. Do you have set communication for different stages or what does that flow look like?

Travis (20:49)

Yeah, so as a whole, think our clients, because of the level that we're at, are very involved because this is their dream home. They've worked their entire life to be able to get over that renovation project. We're in their home all day long. So we're typically communicating, texting, calling, emailing on a daily basis. Aside from that, we do kind of have some milestone points throughout the build. We want to do some walks during framing.

you know, let's verify bath accessories or grab bars, or is there any additional blocking for TVs or, you know, things of that nature, we can go ahead and get in framing stage and be very inexpensive at that point. So we'll do all the trades. you know, mechanicals, electricals, plumbings, do all those walkthroughs with the trade on site, physically mark everything. And then, you know, that all goes through and then

Jesse Sampley (21:24)

Yeah.

Travis (21:38)

I do do one more wall before we do drywall with them so that way they can physically touch fill and see everything before we cover it because as we know it's very inexpensive to change it before drywall but as soon as that board goes up, hey can we move those cans over a foot? Sure, $1,500 a can. Oh my gosh.

Jesse Sampley (21:54)

Yeah. Nobody loves having that conversation, but...

Travis (22:02)

Yeah, it's nuts. One thing we started doing that's really been helpful the past couple years is electrical. We seem to have more issues with electrical things. So we'll do our walkthrough, our electrician will hang all the boxes, cans, and then decorative fixtures that we can locate. So we'll hang all that before we pull wire, and then I'll do a walk with the client so they can physically touch, and feel. Because when you do that walkthrough, it's like, sure, there's a box there. OK, there's some cans up there. But when they physically see it in the place, it really helps.

Jesse Sampley (22:29)

Interesting.

Travis (22:30)

So, I mean typically, know, it's okay, well need to adjust the cans here and there. mean, you know, it'll take 15 minutes of room to adjust some cans if they're already up versus pulling all the wire. Well crap, now I'm two feet short with my wire whips and now let me pull it from here to there. So that's really been very beneficial.

Jesse Sampley (22:39)

Yeah.

And you say you do this with the customer? Wow. Just so they can help.

Travis (22:49)

with the customer. So yeah, we'll do a

pre-walk. We'll a pre-walk with electrician. They'll hang boxes and cans. We'll do a secondary walk with the customer and then the electrician sometimes, because I'll usually put these up and then scoot off to somewhere else to finish something up while we're taking the day just to verify. And then they'll come back and start walking.

Jesse Sampley (23:07)

What a great idea.

Yeah. Then they can visualize it and they're not, like you said, you're not having to reroute a wire or something like that because, you know, like it's, hard to visualize. mean, even it's, it's one thing on a 2d drawing. It's another thing, even at the, the, framing stage, it's still a lot to try to visualize all of it complete. I think that's where AI will have a good opportunity. And even a chat, GPT has gotten real refined now. In fact, we're getting our.

Travis (23:11)

Exactly.

Exactly.

Cheers.

It is.

It has.

Jesse Sampley (23:37)

We're getting our counters redone now. And we had a, we had a stone guy come out yesterday and just real quick. I mean, he snapped a photo within a couple of minutes. He was like, Hey, here's a quick mockup of, you know, all of the different styles. If you want, you know, this type of granite. I mean, it was minutes. And, in my world, you know, I was just like, man, I got to know more about this. I was like, how is this working for you? He's just like this. He said it, it wins us a lot of jobs, you know, because people have.

an issue visualizing and then they get to the, they get an estimate, they're looking at numbers. It's so abstract sometimes, versus if it's like, hey, here's the cost, but here is what you're looking for and you're not having to do much visualization. I think that's where AI will improve a lot of people's workflow in the here in the real near future.

Travis (24:26)

Especially for just quick and dirty, for sure. mean, because it's one thing that we offer is our interior elevations, 3D renderings that Ava does for us on our renovations. And that just helps people tremendously. Because they think they have it in their minds, right? Until you can get it in front of them and see colors and not really touch and feel, but as close as we can get. It really, really helps.

Jesse Sampley (24:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Is that how about, is she doing like virtual walkthroughs too, or is it just pictures?

Travis (24:53)

Not yet, more just elevations. I mean, we can do some.

I mean, she has full capability with the camera, but typically just showing some elevations and some shots and renderings, just kind of pull it all together.

Jesse Sampley (25:03)

Yeah, I would love to see with especially AR, you know, to actually visualize the whole home and let them do kind of like a virtual walkthrough with goggles, let them be able to experience it all. I think so much of that is getting a lot more accessible. It's getting a lot cheaper. yeah, but it's AI is will change everything. That's why all of this investment, all these huge numbers they keep talking about, you know, for these data centers.

Travis (25:11)

Right.

It is. Yeah, that's the biggest hurdle is cost.

Jesse Sampley (25:30)

is to be able to process that kind of stuff. We'll make the cost will get lower, more people use it. Whether you like it or not, it's going to be here. Yeah, it's already here.

Travis (25:37)

It's here. Yeah, I we're doing a renovation for our client.

She keeps saying, Hey, Jack GP just showed me what it would look like. I love it. Like, okay, great. Let's do it. It's not in the original scope, but

Jesse Sampley (25:50)

At

the end of the year, we need a follow-up podcast episode that's just, what are some of these hurdles that AI, know, these are now new problems that are probably coming up because people are, you know, they're sending you things that before it was like, hey, here's a Pinterest photo of a multimillion dollar home that, you know, maybe just totally different than what they're actually getting.

Travis (26:11)

Right.

Jesse Sampley (26:11)

Now it's

not even real. And it's just like, you know, people are putting in the most basic prompts of make this look cool. And there it is. And it's like, perfect. I want that. How much is that? And it's like, yeah, that's not even, that's not even in the ballpark. Yes. And it will lie to you right now. ⁓ It's basically an HGTV,

Travis (26:18)

Right. It's like, boom, there it is. like, awesome. Yeah.

Right. Thanks, Chap, for saying that a kitchen remodel is $20,000. Oh, yes it will.

Jesse Sampley (26:37)

show you know to where it's like oh you can get this for a dollar ninety nine it's like nope that is nine dollars a square foot i don't know where you got that info but it is incorrect

Travis (26:43)

Correct.

Well, we, yeah, we only spent $200 from this folks. Yeah. Because they coach an $800 discount to advertise on your show. Come on guys. And the plumber put it in for free.

Jesse Sampley (26:50)

Yes.

Exactly

in exchange for a shout out on his YouTube video

Travis (27:00)

Right,

exactly. You got it. Yeah, I'd say that's a bigger hurdle on the renovation side than the new construction. think kind of as a whole, people understand the square foot calls for a new construction, but square foot calls when it comes to renovation just, you know, it's just so dependent on the scope.

Jesse Sampley (27:14)

Yeah.

Yeah. And the scope, I'm sure changes a lot too as... Of course not. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to make those decisions. like, hey, if we're already here, we might as well, but where do you stop?

Travis (27:21)

We never have scope creep, come on now.

That's just a rolling ball of, hey, we're here. You want us to do it?

Exactly. That's right.

Just tear the house down and build a new one. I'm all in. Let's get out of

Jesse Sampley (27:41)

that's

right.

Well, tell me, you're a certified green professional. Tell me what that means and how you're using it today.

Travis (27:44)

Very rewarding.

Mm-hmm.

Right, so with that, you know, we got the designation from the National Association of Home Builders. So that required about a week's worth of classing with the test. And it really kind of opens your mind up to the building science and principles of renewability, sustainability, and then trying to work that with the realization of affordability. So it's, hey, you know, we might spend $2,500 more on an HVAC unit to go from

14 and a half to an 18 sear variable speed versus a two stage. But then, okay, that might be a shock, but now let's look on the Delta. When are we gonna see that return? What's the longevity of the product? How much more comfortable and environmentally friendly can we be with this product? So that's kind of where it's, okay, let's look for things like that. it's the spray foams versus fiberglass versus rock wool.

Jesse Sampley (28:30)

Mm-hmm.

Travis (28:46)

Let's build with two by six walls instead of two by four walls. Let's be mindful of, if we bring in our equipment inside the home envelope versus outside, the equipment's gonna last longer and be more efficient in the long term. In our environment, we deal with a lot of crawl spaces. So it's do we want a sealed crawl versus a raised slab versus a not sealed crawl. So how do we deal with that to create the building envelope that we wanna call it?

to really benefit the homeowner in the long run.

Jesse Sampley (29:15)

are you seeing that you're having to be the guide to these customers? The customers aren't coming to you asking for some of these sustainable options?

Travis (29:24)

I would say as a whole our clients are very knowledgeable already. mean they're realizing that we're already at a certain level with price. Okay, so with that I think is an expectation that we're gonna be getting better equipment, more green, more efficient, more sustainable stuff. So I think they have a base knowledge, but then from there it's okay, well let's figure out where you wanna be with your sustainability, your green products.

and let's kind of show you what our standard is. Let's bridge the gap or exceed it. So it's just a little bit of knowledge, a little bit of learning, and then on the flip side, it really forces us to stay knowledgeable and up to date in the industry as a whole, so that way we can then in turn help our clients.

Jesse Sampley (30:08)

Yeah, what are some of those standards that you guys hold?

Travis (30:12)

Yeah, so with a crawl space, we're close crawl, so that way we can really condition and and contain what we have there. We're using two by six exterior walls so we can have more insulation. You know, we're sealing all penetrations to the exterior. We're using a better, efficient glass and window and door package. We're caulking and sealing bottom plates, top plates for air leakage.

We really prefer spray foam over fiberglass. I mean, we understand there's a budgetary constraint and so we'll definitely work with you. If it is a fiberglass house, I personally like to go in with some can of foam and just any penetration, any hole, any missed nail, I'm in there, I'm popping it, I'm sealing it just to help the client in the long run. They'll never see it. That's kinda to your point. You're in the closet doing this practice.

Jesse Sampley (30:39)

Mm-hmm.

Travis (31:03)

just because you know your expectations on yourself and what you want to give. No one may never see it, but they're going to see it on their energy bill. So think things of that nature.

Jesse Sampley (31:12)

And it's important to communicate that stuff too, so that they know that what really goes into it, because those are also the things that they tell other people. And part of the referral is, yeah, it's one thing to say, man, these guys were great to work with, but it's a step further to say, this is what these people did that was a step beyond, like I've never even heard of this. This guy was going around with a spray foam canister that was, I mean, it was just.

I had no idea because I wasn't on site, but you know, they're telling me this. They're telling me the reasons why this is beneficial. It's just another nugget of like, know, trust nugget. It's another thing for them to, and that stuff really compounds over years.

Travis (31:45)

Mm-hmm.

True, no true. Yeah, because I finished the... It does.

And I finished a project for a client eight years ago. It was one of the least expensive homes we've ever done, but he was a great guy. And he still, every time he sees me, he says, Travis, know, my 2,300 square foot house, my energy bill's never been $180, and it's because of you. I know you went in there and sealed it up good, and you personally made sure of like, you know, thank you, Mr. John.

You know, just, I appreciate it. That's awesome. And I'm jealous your energy bill is so low.

Jesse Sampley (32:20)

Hahaha

Travis (32:23)

So you're right, it

is a marketable thing. And it's something we discuss with clients, you know, as a broad spectrum. It's like we're here to, you know, to look after you and to give you that comfort level.

Jesse Sampley (32:33)

Yeah, on an insulation side, are you doing a hybrid spray foam and fiberglass?

Travis (32:39)

So the only time we really do a hybrid, we don't do like a flash and bat or a flash and sill like some people do. We found if we're there foaming, we're just gonna foam it. Unless we do a roof deck foam and a fiberglass wall. That seems to be kind of the affordability from a fiberglass to a foam, but they can't quite go foam. Then we'll do fiberglass walls, foam roof deck.

From what the building science says, you're 60 to 70 % of your energy is lost in your roof deck. So just by hitting it there, then you're looking after yourself in the long run. And if we put our HVAC equipment or water heaters or anything of that nature in the attic, then we're conditioning it. And even just dumping a little bit of that fresh air into the attic space will help kind of keep the air movement, not let it get stale. So yeah, so a little bit of a hybrid.

but not like a true flash and bat, flash and fill like I know some people do in different climates.

Jesse Sampley (33:38)

Now you said, this is switching topics a little bit, but you said you guys do your own designing in house. Also saw new south interiors. You do the interior design also on your homes.

Travis (33:50)

So yes and no, ⁓ saw an opportunity for Ava being an interior designer to be able to start New South Interiors, started that about three years ago now. It allowed for her to be able to bring in some other supplies and materials to be able to offer clients versus what necessarily some of our normal vendors can do. So really it's kind of.

curtailed towards our clients currently that don't have an interior designer versus a true interior design company where we're bringing in clients separately than what our builds can do.

Jesse Sampley (34:25)

Cause you're seeing your customers are already coming to the table with the design, with an interior designer. You guys are there to bring the vision to life.

Travis (34:34)

It,

I would say ish. it seems like how we prefer it is, engage us first, let us work through the design of the home. And then when it comes to like the overall fit, finish and soft good side balance, bring in an interior designer. We want to be kind of that boutique shop, right? Where idea to keys, you know, that's, that's kind of where we want to be. And then

during that design process as we're working through the plans and such, okay, now let's look, do you need an interior designer? Are you comfortable doing it yourself? And then we can come in and help assist on really any needs that you have.

Jesse Sampley (35:09)

Okay. Yeah. And it's a, it's an easy fit, you know, because so much of the, the build construction side, you know, goes right hand in hand with some of the interior design, you know, little pockets here that, that, you know, maybe it's having to be done later, you know, but just having all of that stuff in house, it seems like people get a better experience just by having it all in under one, one, well under one roof. No pun intended.

Travis (35:19)

Good luck.

Exactly.

No, no, yeah, absolutely.

We want to build that roof.

Jesse Sampley (35:38)

Well, tell me, let's transition a little bit to the marketing side. What do you think sets you guys apart in your market from other builders? And has that been a deliberate choice?

Travis (35:49)

Yeah. So I think traditionally as a whole, we've allowed our, our company and our product to drive our marketing. So we've been primarily word of mouth, just because we've been rooted here so long, we have kind of the history here and people know the name and it's driven us. But you know, as the digital age, I would say it's kind of a weird way to say social media, digital things of that, ⁓ are evolving.

You know, we definitely noticed that like, Hey, we got to get in this game. ⁓ yes, it's great that we have word of mouth, but we were starting to see an influx, especially COVID where so many people were coming into town that didn't know anybody or anything. were like, Hey, you know, let's, I can work from home. start looking at coastal towns that are affordable. And they're like, Hey, Wilmington, Wrightsville beach killer spots. So let's go there. And they just either will buy a piece of land or buy a house. And then they're just like, Hey, real estate agent person, you know, what's.

What's a builder? What's a renovator? So, you know, part of our struggle then was, okay, now we got to switch from word of mouth, you know, good old boys and little Wilmington to, okay, our cities, our towns getting a little bigger. So now we need to start pushing. So from that, you know, just started kind of hitting the pavement, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, never really successful YouTube or X or Twitter or anything like that. And then.

Jesse Sampley (37:12)

And this is organic

social media or are these paid ads?

Travis (37:15)

No,

so organic for the most part. was, it was really me. I was taking videos, taking pictures and kind of posting as I had time. I tried paid ads. felt like I just kind of spent some money and didn't really see any returns. And what I, what I understood was, you know, SEOs was content, content, content, post, post, post. But now as I'm you're aware of the SEOs aren't necessarily as important as content and

trying to figure out, you how do we reach people? And it is, right.

Jesse Sampley (37:47)

Yeah, it's just, it's all together now. You know, it's not, it's not

as fragmented and AI has kind of brought all of those pieces together because even, even years ago it was, if you Googled something, something that you posted on Facebook wouldn't show up in a Google result, but now it does. And, know, you Google something and it's a, it's an ex post, it's a YouTube video, it's, it's everything. And then your AI summary is now pulling everything that it has access to.

Travis (37:54)

it has.

in it.

Jesse Sampley (38:14)

and giving you a short snippet to say, hey, here's exactly the answer that you're looking for. So if you're moving to the, yeah, for better or worse, yeah, you better be buttoned up because it's going to show people. that, you know, best home builders in the Wilmington area, who's it going to pull from? What's it going to pull from the people that have put the most effort into it? And that's what we saw too, was that there was a lot of people that had been around for 40, 50 years that, man, they were invisible.

Travis (38:18)

For better or worse.

Jesse Sampley (38:42)

And it's just like, it didn't look like they had booked a job in 50 years or that they never even existed. And it was, you know, some of the people that, you know, the older companies that didn't have a second generation that were coming in, they're like, Hey, it doesn't matter. I'm already kind of at the end of the retirement stage anyways. You know, I'm almost there, but those that were trying to hand it over, you know, there's a bit of a frustration of just kind of being behind the ball a little bit and being like, man, we've got such a local presence, you know, physically.

But when you go to look us up online, we look like it's amateur hour. It looks like we have never built a home in our life because our website's from the 80s and we look broken.

Travis (39:23)

Yeah, so yeah, I think the website's a huge thing. Really, mean, you everybody can dump 25 grand in this spectacular website, but if nobody goes to your website and can find your website to your point, you just throw some money in the ground and lit it on fire and buried it. So part of it is, okay, let's have a good website that delivers our point, that's clean, that's polished, but also we need to spend some money on the social media side, you know, and really make sure we're pumping out good content.

Jesse Sampley (39:39)

Yeah.

Travis (39:52)

Because we were really in a couple magazines every year, which was expensive in my opinion. last year, I kind of saw kind of where the monies were going and we weren't really getting return on investment. So I'm like, okay, we're going to cut this and let's just pump it in social media and see how it's done. And I mean, this past year, I feel like our presence on social media, I mean, we've grown, gosh, you just showed me the analytics, I think 40%.

Jesse Sampley (39:59)

Yeah.

Travis (40:20)

presence as a whole has increased in one year, which I mean, that's huge to me.

Jesse Sampley (40:24)

Wow. Is that

across all social channels or is that mostly Instagram?

Travis (40:29)

So, analytics were pulled, I think, from Instagram, but it's Instagram, Facebook. Just now in the past two months, we've started getting her to post to LinkedIn just to kind of push out to a more professional network. So that way, people that actually have money and work can see the projects and the product that we're doing. So really, still nothing like paid marketing aside from we did engage with.

I'm a social media person that's doing our content and our posts. But yeah, nothing like a marketing team that's then pushing SEO stuff or key phrases on Facebook or Google or anything like

Jesse Sampley (41:04)

Yeah. This

is what we focus on, which is like you said earlier, your website is the base and then everything else is really distribution channels. So if you kind of view it as a campaign to say, I want all of the horses to lead to the website, it makes, it kind of lays out your plan a lot more naturally to say, Hey, the end result is that they're going to come to the website and they're either going to fill out a form.

They're going to get some sort of a lead magnet, know, ⁓ 2026 builder designs or something like that. But you know, this is where we're going to house all of our data, you know, cause you also, some people in this, I think this is a huge mistake is they're building their business on these different social channels, but it's very unpredictable because you don't know, you don't know if you, you know, your account could get banned. It could get blocked. Your website you own.

Travis (42:00)

True.

Jesse Sampley (42:01)

everything, you know, it's

Travis (42:02)

Right.

Jesse Sampley (42:02)

you have the domain. so let all of that other stuff kind of be cheerleaders that are out there that are garnishing attention, but all of it should come back. and it gives it helps for the, for the the appropriate types of content you put out to, you know, if it's a Facebook or a tick tock or an Instagram video, you know, you as a builder could do something to just drive more awareness. And that may be, you know,

dancing on the job site. It could be whatever. That's appropriate. Is it appropriate on a website? You know, probably not. You know, if you're, but if it's just like, hey, I just need some quick attention and I'm kind of driving this attention somewhere with purpose, then it's, then you're, you, have a reason for it because it means nothing if it's like, man, I've got a million views on this really funny reel that we posted. And like, okay, what did it translate to? Well, nothing because, you know, it was just picked up.

Travis (42:33)

No.

Jesse Sampley (42:55)

because a lot of people were viewing it, but it didn't translate to anything.

Travis (43:00)

Yeah, that's kind of part of what my goal is this year. It's more of, let's get off the content we have previously, such as pictures and some videos, snippets of past projects, projects under. So, okay, I gotta get in front of the camera more and I gotta show my face and I need to talk and show, teach as many people as I can engage.

So then they can say, R &B, this guy Travis actually may know a little bit about what he's saying. So hey, my uncle Bill is thinking of moving to Wilmington and buying a house for building a house. Let me push this to him to show him that, this guy knows what he's doing. So yeah, that's kind of the hope for this year.

Jesse Sampley (43:28)

Yeah.

Yeah. I actually,

I actually talked to a builder out in Arizona a couple of weeks ago and they said that they were getting referrals from real estate agents that followed them on social media on Instagram and was referring work to these guys. And they said, we had never even met these people. So they were, you know, yes, they were still getting organic referrals, but they were virtual referrals, you know? So it was, that's the beauty of it too, is that.

you know, it kind of creates a snowball of, know, yes, your immediate, your immediate audience is going to see this, but it's also going to go beyond that. And people are going to say, Hey, yeah, in the Wilmington area, yeah, these are the guys to go to. You'll be getting these referrals. Like, I don't even know who, who referred to, but I mean, like, how do I don't even know these people. But that's, you know, that's the beauty of social media is that, you know, just like you and I in this conversation, you know, we can interact with each other. We're in.

Travis (44:19)

Right.

Jesse Sampley (44:33)

two totally different states, yet you can build trust very easily when, get on camera, talk, communicate, share some knowledge. It doesn't have to be rocket science or anything real complicated. Definitely not real, polished. And people will relate to you real, real quickly. Cause it's like, Hey, this is a, I feel like I'm interacting with this person the same I would if I just walked up to the job site and started talking to this person.

Travis (44:57)

Yeah, I mean, I think our industry as a whole is a little, you know, stereotyped or has a stigma to it that it's just this, this bubba dude is trying to rip you off and take you for all your worth. But in reality, you know, we're, we're normal people. We're trying to make a little bit of money and you know, we just want to connect with you on a personal level. Like let's have an honest conversation. Let's, it doesn't have to be so serious. Yes, you're paying me a lot of money. I get it. But

Let's just be people, let's just talk, let's have a serious conversation. And that's kinda how I approach a lot of this is yes, there's times like, let's get the nuts and bolts, let's get hard and fast on it, but also let's keep it light, let's keep it friendly, let's keep it familiar. And that really helps people.

Jesse Sampley (45:38)

Yeah.

You're responsible for a large portion of someone's life, you know, and you're basically managing that for them and facilitating it for them. it is not an easy task. I think it's an undervalued, maybe it's an undervalued perception that people have.

Travis (45:45)

Absolutely.

Jesse Sampley (46:00)

is like, this person's just calling the subs, the subs come and do everything. It's a lot more than that. And I think that's where the value of communication comes to show everything. Because if you never talk to anybody and you don't tell them what you're doing, they just assume you're not doing anything.

Travis (46:03)

Right.

True. Yeah,

well, I haven't heard from Travis in two weeks. He's asking for money. Is he doing anything?

Jesse Sampley (46:19)

Yeah, I guess you just...

And the only communication that they do here is, hey, you your payment's coming up or something. You never want that. You know, it's like, no, there's a lot more that's happening. But if you don't communicate it, you know, like I said, they're just assuming that if it's quiet on their end, it's quiet on your end, even if you're extremely busy and proactive.

Travis (46:31)

Right. No.

Right.

And sometimes no news is not always good news.

Jesse Sampley (46:48)

That's right.

but you know, own it, own it and get through it. I think people, there's another builder in Kentucky and they said, they said, you know, we always did right by our clients. never, we didn't always make them happy. And I thought that was a real, real thing that they said, which was, you know, yes, we had problems, but we worked through those problems. They're in a small town and you know, reputation was everything to them because they would bump into their.

Travis (46:51)

Okay. Yeah.

Jesse Sampley (47:15)

customers, they'd been around for 40 years, they bumped into them at Lowe's and Home Depot and restaurants and events. And they said, even though we had to work through a real challenging portion of the build, we still did right by you. And they saw that after the fact. Yeah.

Travis (47:32)

That's great.

Jesse Sampley (47:33)

⁓

Any other softwares that you guys are using besides BuildTrend?

Travis (47:39)

So for our design side, we're using Chief Architect. We've really appreciated and enjoyed the 3D aspect of it and just being able to do our renderings.

We're kind of old school and still kind of in dinosaur age where people laugh at me, but you know, I use Excel for my estimation. I use a lot of pen and paper for my estimation and working through it. You know, we hand take off everything off a set of plans and then we are the ones that, you we create our takeoff list and we push it to people. We're not the type of people that's like, hey, here's a set of plans, me some numbers, you know, which are subs, obviously, they're going to handle that. But as far as materials, sticks, bricks, we're going to count them up.

every stick, every brick, and we're going to send it out. But Builder Trend is our primary tool. mean, Builder Trend is really working itself. I feel like I'm in advertisement right now, but we've been in for like 11 years. So mean, I've kind of been in it from towards the beginning. But, you know, really management schedules, selections, you can run estimates. I thought it was a little clunky for my needs, but a lot of people do it with success. All doc.

Jesse Sampley (48:29)

wow.

Travis (48:42)

Documents, change orders, pre-con, post-con, warranty. mean, so it really is kind of an all-in-one tool for us to be able to use with our client.

Jesse Sampley (48:51)

Who are some people that you drive inspiration from? CEOs, podcasts, books?

Travis (48:58)

Yeah, I'm a really bad person to ask this question. So as a whole, I'm not huge on social media. I was big and then I kind of unplugged probably three years ago. So I really kind of got unplugged and just stayed and focused on kind of what we're doing. And it's been great. You know, I try to lean on people.

So I am in a builder group. I kind of mentioned earlier. So there's 20 of us across the country. We started out through the NIHB, National Association of Home Builders. They had builder 20s. And our group was number one. We were the first ever group that was built. So we kind of, we ran that for a long time and then we decided we were going to break away and start our own

So I am in my second year of that. mean, my peers, which I am one of the younger members as a second gen coming in, I was very honored to be elected as this. so two year kind of tenure to help guide us through. so we meet twice a year and really it's like a board of elders. I we, open up everything books, documents, contracts, customer complaints, our complaints, you know, pipeline issues.

selection or vendor selections materials, know, whatever. So spring we do financials, fall it's everything else. So there's 20 of us across the country, all different markets, non-competes. The closest one to us is Charleston and probably New York, Pennsylvania. So yeah, it's a great group. mean, really it's like if I've come across a new material, I come across a client that wants to use a specific.

Contract hey guys has anybody seen this like boom here you go. Here's the contract We use in this exact same situation take my letter head off put it on there run it by your lawyer Make sure it meets both Carolina standards. I mean, it's it's it's super invaluable

Jesse Sampley (50:47)

nice.

Like a builder's mastermind.

Travis (50:52)

Absolutely. So I mean, these guys, I I'm not exaggerating when there's probably a thousand years of experience in this room. I mean, we're, I think we're up to seven or eight of the 20 companies now that have second gen. So I mean, some of these guys have been building 50, 60 years. ⁓ So I mean, it's just so invaluable. So I really pull a lot of inspiration from those guys just because they've been successful. Some of the guys are startups from nothing.

Jesse Sampley (51:04)

Wow. Wow.

Travis (51:18)

Some are super big social media influencers. They'll be at the International Builder Show speaking and hosting things. So just wonderful guys and gals.

Jesse Sampley (51:27)

Well, tell me what's the future of R &B look like?

Travis (51:30)

Yeah, so with RMB, I think number one is slow acquisition for me to kind of take over my father's portion of the company. We're 50-50 right now. We're true partners in this. So we really have a family dynamic. We're small. ⁓ I don't foresee myself as an owner, as a company, growing much larger than where we are. Maybe one or two more people. I like

the intimate setting that we have, the family atmosphere that we have as a company and what that offers our clients. They know from day one, everybody's name, everybody's face, they're meeting them and that's the person that they're going to be dealing with. You know, this is the team you're dealing with for two years. And I think that's invaluable. So, you know, just trying to work with my dad on transition with him, going to retirement, contract work. If my mom will let him, you know.

I'm also under the influence that if I can hire and keep my dad, I can be like, here you go, you know, about face walk away. And I know he's going to do a fantastic job, deliver a high quality product and be profitable. And you can't, you can't put a price on that. I mean, you can't trust everybody. Right. And I can't, I can't say enough about that. Right.

Jesse Sampley (52:43)

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really cool.

Travis (52:53)

But that's kind of where I see, mean, I really enjoy the custom side. I really enjoy the renovation side. Both of them have their challenges and I like my brain to be challenged in different ways. I hate doing the same thing twice. I hate being in an office 24 seven. And that's the blessing with construction is that we're not, you know, we're in the field, we're people, we're selling, we're building, we're making. And then with that, you know, I'm reaching out now because I know

writings on the wall that I'm going to be losing my father at some point with a construction side, not as a person. He's not, you know, So I mean, I'll be losing that asset. So, so now it's okay. Well, now let me reach out to architects, draftsmen and start that relationship. So that, that's what I started doing. Fourth quarter of last year, starting engaging with some architects and draftsmen in town and have really started some, some good relationships and, have some opportunities to do some projects for them.

Jesse Sampley (53:34)

Mm-hmm.

Travis (53:48)

because I want to keep design build under our envelope. So I mean, ideally in a perfect situation, I engage with the client and then I say, okay, you know, I know I have these three architects, you know, I think you're gonna be a better fit with this architect here. So now let me grab that architect, bring him in, so that way I can bring my construction knowledge with that kind of artistic side to where we can deliver a really beautiful product to make sure it's buildable.

Jesse Sampley (54:14)

Yeah, how many homes is that a year?

Travis (54:16)

So depending on the year, we're two to four. And then renovations run anywhere from now seven or eight to 15, just depending on the scale. So like I say, we're smaller, our revenue is anywhere from five to eight million, just depending on the year.

Luckily, we're blessed in the kind of where we are in the marketplace that the majority of our clients aren't pulling loans and construction loans to be able to do. We had a lot of clients though when it was 3%, 2.5%. They're like, I'm pulling a loan. I'm taking the one client I was going to put in this. I'm putting it in the market. They made 10%. They paid their loan off like

Jesse Sampley (54:41)

Yeah.

Why not?

Yeah. Yeah.

Travis (54:56)

Thanks, Travis. You know, we walked with 75 grand positive and we got a house. It's like, I got paid to work good. So it's like you want to start that renovation now with all that money you just made.

Jesse Sampley (55:00)

Exactly. Yes. Well, Travis.

Travis (55:08)

But yeah, that's

definitely a hurdle. It's, know, how can people adequately spend money? The affordability side, I mean, I think that's a big issue in our country as a whole. I mean, we saw prices of homes skyrocket during COVID. And it's very challenging for, you know, even myself. And if I look when I was, you know, 24, 25 coming into the industry, I couldn't afford to buy a house right now just because of where the interest rates are and then, you know, what the salary ranges are.

So it's tough, there's definitely some inequality there. So challenging.

Jesse Sampley (55:43)

Travis, this was great. Thank you for the conversation. I'm looking forward to following you guys, your journey, and hopefully we'll see you in Orlando.

Travis (55:49)

Absolutely.

Yeah, we're gonna make it happen. All right

Jesse Sampley (55:54)

Yeah, for

sure.